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Post by scully19 on Aug 16, 2023 5:47:30 GMT -5
Morey just isn't about to trade Harden for anything that doesn't keep them in title contention or he might as well trade Embiid too. They would have to be getting enough assets they can turn around and trade for a good player or its not happening and that trade isn't it. I realize Harden tanked his value which just means he's not going anywhere and we get to see them fight for the year.
I'm really interested to see Harden try to get moved out when he's also in a contract year with very few teams having moving and even fewer wanting to spend near max on Harden.
For the record if the Raptors even traded that pittance for Harden I'd probably be upset. He's one of the least liked to watch players in the league.
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Post by sandman on Aug 16, 2023 9:49:50 GMT -5
Harden is a terrible team player. He'd be on my list of top 5 most unlikeable guys in the league. He's not even enjoyable to watch anymore. Dude just flops around.
I think Embiid is in there too. Sometimes I feel bad for him but then he just... whines and cries.
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Post by haisan on Aug 16, 2023 10:51:30 GMT -5
Meh. I’m on the record as being extremely anti-Harden. But Harden for scraps? That interests me. Lillard too. Both are problematic players, but surrounded by the Raptors core? That interests me a lot.
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Post by scully19 on Aug 16, 2023 11:07:24 GMT -5
Interesting to win games but not too watch them win.
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Post by zugzwang on Aug 16, 2023 14:19:24 GMT -5
I don't know that Lillard deserves the same brush as Harden. Sure, Lillard is making all sorts of demands these days, but he was Portland loyal for a very long time. Sure, he got paid very well to do it, but a lot of stars would have taken the money and then turned around and whined their way out of Portland much earlier. I think Lillard would give the Six a chance.
The real problem with Lillard is that, with our current team, he won't move the needle enough to make Toronto a contender, especially if we have to give up someone significant. A know a lot of people would prefer that, if we aren't contending, we should be more mercenary. We should tank and focus solely on picks and youth.
I think that's a legitimate position to take. But for me personally, I also think there's a happy zone somewhere beneath truly contending but also above treadmilling where you can enjoy your team and a nice product of basketball. Raps kinda had that during the Derozen era and it wasn't so bad. Post season frequently ended badly, but we enjoyed gearing up for it at least. And who knows, maybe we're once again, only one disgruntled super star away from a title.
I think 'The Thrillard for Peanuts' could get the Raptors back to that upper middle zone. I'm doubtful such a deal really exists, but if it actually does, I'm in.
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Post by haisan on Aug 16, 2023 20:23:27 GMT -5
Meh. It's the middle of a boring August, in the middle of boring off-season. I don't mind random speculation about trades and weird ways of reconfiguring the Raptors. Personally, I'm not being terribly serious at the moment.
I don't think it's likely the Raptors will end up with Lillard or Harden ... However, if we did ... I actually think that Lillard could make the Raptors into a potential contender. Certainly better than the Heat or Celtics. The biggest question mark would be how we'd match up versus the Bucks.
Harden, otoh, is getting scary close to 2001 Hakeem. I'm only interested in Harden if we get him for nothing. (Although the thought of the Toronto beat reporters scouring the Toronto men's clubs, looking for Harden "news", amuses me).
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Post by scully19 on Aug 17, 2023 13:45:48 GMT -5
I like the middle of boring off season speculation that the Raptors would like to get in on Herro to facilitate Lillard to Miami. His stock has gone way down but he would be fantastic on this team. Elite shooter with good creation with the ball. Everything they need on offense. He would hurt on defense but that's fine, we have so many people ready to take the harder assignments he should be hidable.
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Post by haisan on Aug 17, 2023 18:57:13 GMT -5
Is Herro really that good? I’ve generally assumed he was overrated because he’s on the Heat. But if he’s not some overhyped mediocrity, then yes, getting him by helping Miami get Lillard becomes a lot more interesting.
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Post by sutureself on Aug 17, 2023 23:19:41 GMT -5
I like Herro a lot but the fact we're also developing Gradey Dick makes it a bit weird because they have the same potential strengths and weaknesses, and I'm hopefully not stereotyping just because they're both gawky looking white guys. Herro is a really excellent shooter, average/decent rebounder, average/decent facilitator, probably below average defender who you can hopefully hide in a defensive scheme or have him aspire to be an average defender. That kind of sounds like Dick's best case scouting report of the type of guy he might develop into (20/5/4), but it's hard to hide two guys like that in the lineup at the same time.
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Post by scully19 on Aug 18, 2023 12:51:32 GMT -5
I like Herro a lot but the fact we're also developing Gradey Dick makes it a bit weird because they have the same potential strengths and weaknesses, and I'm hopefully not stereotyping just because they're both gawky looking white guys. Herro is a really excellent shooter, average/decent rebounder, average/decent facilitator, probably below average defender who you can hopefully hide in a defensive scheme or have him aspire to be an average defender. That kind of sounds like Dick's best case scouting report of the type of guy he might develop into (20/5/4), but it's hard to hide two guys like that in the lineup at the same time. To get Herro Portland/Miami needs youth and picks to trade, that's the whole reason they aren't interested in Herro...so my assumption is to get Herro would cost Dick. Like you said this is basically moving a rookie for it's future self so I'm on board for sure.
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