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Post by Pseudonym on Jun 25, 2023 12:41:19 GMT -5
Porter being remotely healthy and Grady uh....not being a bust would be a massive upgrade for bench production in of itself. If Darko gets through to Precious and Boucher and their bone headed mistakes are cut down, there's a stew going.
And ANYTHING from Banton, Flynn et al, would be game changing for the regular season; not trotting out terrible players and being able to rest your good ones goes very far.
Not playing the league's most aggressive scheme and actually leveraging the defensive versatility will be nice as well. Also....more legs for open shots, along with less mental energy expended.
I still maintain that there was a negative feedback loop. Less than the sum of their parts...
But I wouldn't run it back personally, but I can see how they have talked themselves into it. However only when this roster puts up a not-atrocious halfcourt offense, will it not be fool's gold.
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Post by haisan on Jun 25, 2023 20:37:26 GMT -5
But I wouldn't run it back personally, but I can see how they have talked themselves into it. However only when this roster puts up a not-atrocious halfcourt offense, will it not be fool's gold. I could also see the FO thinking that the team could look a lot better with a new coach, etc., and hoping when they do rebuild they can make trades from a position of strength. Not when the other teams are sensing blood in the water and trying to get, say, Pascal for scraps and some 2nd round picks. |
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Post by haisan on Jun 26, 2023 1:37:32 GMT -5
Am I the only one who feels quite pleased about hearing Pascal didn't want to re-sign with anyone else? That implies to me that the mood in the locker room is still pretty good. Maybe the problem was largely Nurse? It's so nice when someone wants to be here ... although the last guy like that was DeRozan and we know how that turned out.
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Post by scully19 on Jun 26, 2023 7:41:35 GMT -5
Am I the only one who feels quite pleased about hearing Pascal didn't want to re-sign with anyone else? That implies to me that the mood in the locker room is still pretty good. Maybe the problem was largely Nurse? It's so nice when someone wants to be here ... although the last guy like that was DeRozan and we know how that turned out. I'd like to think that way but the truth is if he gets all-NBA this year then he is eligible for the supermax only if he stays in the Raptors. He might want to be here but hard to argue that it isn't the money. With the 65 game limit this year so many options are going to be cut out I think he actually has a good chance. |
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Post by zugzwang on Jun 26, 2023 10:26:59 GMT -5
Yeah, Siakam's agent may have leaked that to defend his player's chance at the super-max. The timing was unfortunate.
By the way, anybody remember how long it took Masai to trade Carmello Anthony? It was an agonizingly slow process.
This is all guess work, of course, but I don't think Masai intended to 'run it back', I think he legit intended to sell several pieces over the last several weeks. He just does not do fire sales and he held out for better offers until he ran out of time again, just as he did at deadline. If he has a bottom line, he sticks to it.
You can argue he over-valued certain players, and that he missed out on trades that could have or should have been as a result.
But that's what you get with Mr. Patience. He doesn't panic. Pros and Cons.
But I think this is all sort of Plan "B". And without truly knowing the contemporaneous offers in front of Masai, it's hard to know if he was right or wrong.
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Post by scully19 on Jun 27, 2023 10:58:09 GMT -5
I was on the side of bringing FVV back. He's generally a good leader and he's a good player that was miscast somewhat in asking too much from him last year as a creator that he was too slow/short to get there. The other part being that keeping an asset you can trade later is also important. Now it sounds like the Rockets are planning a big offer, floated number of 35 mill a year for 2 years or greater than 30 mil average for a 4 year deal. These numbers just seem like too much and that asset I don't think it's going to be very good when on a bad contract. Time to move more back handling to Scottie.
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Post by haisan on Jun 27, 2023 19:01:04 GMT -5
Yeah, I think I like FVV more than most, but US$35 million? Like we can’t get 80% of Fred for a fraction of that money?
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Post by scully19 on Jun 28, 2023 12:02:59 GMT -5
If you didn't like 35 million, how about this:
Basically would need to pick long term security or short term big pay day and hope you get another good contact next. I don't see how he doesn't take the Houston deal. It would be nearly 35 million more in the first 2 seasons (I think the Raptors deal starts at 26.5 or something)
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Post by freewheel on Jun 28, 2023 13:08:06 GMT -5
I generally like Vanvleet and think he would be excellent in a shared PG situation. However he has not had a PG to share the duties since Lowry left.
Vanvleet isn't worth that kind of money. He just doesn't move the needle enough.
The Raptors have two assets in Siakam and Anunoby that are available to be dealt. I think both are worth more than Vanvleet in the the NBA. If we can't get a reasonable replacement for Vanvleet by trading one of those guys then we have a failed management team.
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Post by fenris77 on Jun 29, 2023 1:01:16 GMT -5
With Lowry possibly getting waived I am now firmly on board with bringing him back for a farewell tour as the backup PG. That would be awesome. He still might get traded of course, but if Miami des use the stretch provision I think the Raps would be silly not to at least kick the tires.
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Post by scully19 on Jun 29, 2023 18:36:18 GMT -5
This honestly upsets me. Delano seems like such a good prospect that moving to a development team means you should bring back those that are development worthy.
The upside I guess is that as Blake is eluding to, getting his RFA rights would cost more than a minimum contract which I guess is what they may be after... Isn't Fred gone at this point, what money are we saving for then? If Fred changes his mind this can be waved... Unless he signs it really quick I guess.
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Post by scully19 on Jun 30, 2023 18:28:37 GMT -5
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Post by scully19 on Jun 30, 2023 18:38:52 GMT -5
FVV backup plan Gabe Vincent has signed with the Lakers for 3 year 33 million. I wonder what the backup to the backup is.
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Post by haisan on Jun 30, 2023 19:55:18 GMT -5
Bye bye FVV. Amazing career, regardless.
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Post by scully19 on Jun 30, 2023 20:35:04 GMT -5
That guy has the best agents in the world.
Started bids were like 30 a year for 3 years vs 35 for 2, that went to 40 for 2, so 30 for 4, then 43.3 for 3.
I'm guessing he'll hate Houston but you can't say no to that.
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Post by scully19 on Jun 30, 2023 20:37:58 GMT -5
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Post by blueyoda on Jun 30, 2023 23:23:15 GMT -5
I like these moves! Time to unleash Barnes to run the show to see if he can coexist with OG and Pascal then. Schroder to back him up and alternate Trent and Gradey as the shooters. Im actually lot more optimisitic than what I am seeing in social media. 50+ win seaaon  Even if not, I want to see real progress of the young crew. |
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Post by scully19 on Jul 1, 2023 11:14:12 GMT -5
Ya this season is very much more around let Scottie play PG, go through his ups and downs and develop for a year. After this year is where you can judge on him being that player or not.
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Post by freewheel on Jul 1, 2023 12:06:11 GMT -5
I'm pretty happy with the Schroeder signing. He isn't a replacement and he doesn't make the team better but they weren't going anywhere with Vanvleet at that massive number. Schroeder is a high end backup and a passable stopgap while you search for a better long term solution. Two years is quite probably the perfect length contract.
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Post by scully19 on Jul 1, 2023 12:12:09 GMT -5
I'm pretty happy with the Schroeder signing. He isn't a replacement and he doesn't make the team better but they weren't going anywhere with Vanvleet at that massive number. Schroeder is a high end backup and a passable stopgap while you search for a better long term solution. Two years is quite probably the perfect length contract. you think he'll start or come off the bench? Starters Scottie, GTJ, OG, Siakam, Poeltl? |
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Post by freewheel on Jul 1, 2023 12:17:53 GMT -5
I'd probably start Schroeder. I think the team needs more ball handlers and people to break the defence down. I'm still looking for more changes in the team personnel. Still too many forwards and not enough guards.
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Post by scully19 on Jul 1, 2023 12:20:42 GMT -5
I'd probably start Schroeder. I think the team needs more ball handlers and people to break the defence down. I'm still looking for more changes in the team personnel. Still too many forwards and not enough guards. I can see it both ways and really it'll probably go both ways throughout the year, but I wanted them to give Scottie all the opportunity last year at the trade deadline and might as well move it over to now. Throw 5 extra games at the start of the year but get him the reps to develop. We hired a developmental coach so I'm leaning in, go ahead and develop the players for what they can be. I also assume that if this is the plan that Darko will be working now so that Scottie is ready to start the year and comes back with improved handle over anything else, 2nd being 3pt shot he's down to be working on. |
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Post by blueyoda on Jul 1, 2023 12:30:39 GMT -5
I'd probably start Schroeder. I think the team needs more ball handlers and people to break the defence down. I'm still looking for more changes in the team personnel. Still too many forwards and not enough guards. I can see it both ways and really it'll probably go both ways throughout the year, but I wanted them to give Scottie all the opportunity last year at the trade deadline and might as well move it over to now. Throw 5 extra games at the start of the year but get him the reps to develop. We hired a developmental coach so I'm leaning in, go ahead and develop the players for what they can be. I also assume that if this is the plan that Darko will be working now so that Scottie is ready to start the year and comes back with improved handle over anything else, 2nd being 3pt shot he's down to be working on. I'm learning towards Barnes as PG to see what we have. If it isn't working at all, time to look at Pascal (or perhaps OG) move at the trade deadline? Also, starting Trent but going with whoever is hot between Trent and Dick getting the most minutes based on the day, keeps the shooting going hopefully. Also want to see more development from Koloko this year - he has shown flashes of promise, hopefully it builds on that long term. |
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Post by Pseudonym on Jul 1, 2023 12:40:01 GMT -5
Objectively speaking, it's a failure of the FO to lose FVV, the heir apparent to the GROAT for nothing. However, man's getting LeBron money, GODDAMN.
Strangely happy for him though. Undrafted and got that massive bag to babysit Jalen Green.
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Post by scully19 on Jul 1, 2023 17:01:33 GMT -5
Objectively speaking, it's a failure of the FO to lose FVV, the heir apparent to the GROAT for nothing. However, man's getting LeBron money, GODDAMN. Strangely happy for him though. Undrafted and got that massive bag to babysit Jalen Green. meh, they were looking at getting barely anything at the deadline because he was expiring and no one was thinking the only team with max money is offering it to FVV. I think the FO has fallen to much in love with the guys they brought along and has failed them otherwise. They needed to make moves last trade deadline. 8 don't feel like FVV was really a failure though considering the rare circumstances. |
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Post by blueyoda on Jul 1, 2023 20:42:32 GMT -5
We got Jalen McDaniels too?
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Post by sandman on Jul 3, 2023 9:10:02 GMT -5
Where's the chatter about the new guys?
I like the moves. Good depth pieces. Our depth was not used and wasn't the greatest last season.
We still need shooting and guards though... lol
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Post by sutureself on Jul 3, 2023 16:20:24 GMT -5
The tough thing with this roster is I don't want to give up on any of Scottie, OG or Pascal because I like them all as players, but I feel like at some point you need to trade one of them for a true PG/facilitator to make this roster click, because I think Scottie's an excellent secondary facilitator but I don't know if he can just straight up be The Guy. Some sort of Atlanta trade involving Murray or possible Young feels like it would make sense for both sides, but I also hate to give up Siakam if he wants to stay here long term when we've seen what he can do for a good team.
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Post by scully19 on Jul 3, 2023 19:07:38 GMT -5
Blake Murphy made a great point and explains my large disappointment in not bringing Delano back... He was used by the front office as part of the evidence that we failed in development under Nurse, and then they turn around and release him when he could still develop.
I really liked him and his potential, and he's now joined Champagnie in Boston who seem to keep picking up the guys we drafted but didn't give a chance... Probably because we drafted them and have a good track record.
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Post by freewheel on Jul 3, 2023 21:40:23 GMT -5
I agree. That's just dumb. Invest in your draft picks.
I cringe at the amount court time given to retreads, 10 dayers, Gleaguers, etc over the last few seasons. They haven't helped us win and we don't even keep any of them beyond a few months.
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