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Post by scully19 on Apr 8, 2023 8:13:10 GMT -5
The Raptors are worse at defense than people expect and better at offense than people expect, and that all comes from that defensive gambling to spur the offense. Good teams can rip both of those apart.
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Post by sandman on Apr 8, 2023 23:33:20 GMT -5
There just doesn't seem to be a clear path forward.
Scottie was a great add. However, FVV and Siakam are just not dominant enough and Scottie isn't that "tier" to help elevate those 2.
Blow it up and build around Scottie? Or do we think we can add a piece to OG/Scottie/Poetlt/Fvv/Siakam to contend with the big boys? I'd say option 1 is better. I don't have enough faith in either FVV or Siakam to be good enough unless you add a Kawhi-level player to this roster.
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Post by haisan on Apr 9, 2023 10:27:35 GMT -5
Strangely enough, I think the Raptors are surprisingly close to turning this around. They have talent, it's just horribly constructed and redundant at the moment. But if they can pull a 2-for-1 and get a good shooting guard... Then I think a lot of their other pieces will fall into line and make more sense. (A lot of that theory depends on Scottie Barnes pulling his head out of his ass and fulfilling his potential, of course).
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Post by scully19 on Apr 9, 2023 13:19:42 GMT -5
I don't disagree it does seem like they have a lot of talent, beyond being not quite making sense I think it falls miserably in how it is used either. Same what Sandman was talking about, their defense should be both top notch and without gambling and they need to build a half court offense that actually works even if it isn't top notch somewhere around average with the defense holding you in games to be is the way to go.
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Post by fenris77 on Apr 9, 2023 20:01:28 GMT -5
Well, the D has actually been markedly better since the Yak trade (generally) while being less gamble heavy and allowing less corner threes. Small sample size, but encouraging. Apparently having a real center actually does matter.
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Post by zugzwang on Apr 10, 2023 8:07:58 GMT -5
This play-in tournament is going to be the weirdest thing to hit Raptorland in a while.
It sounds like for every Raptors fan praying their team will lose, there's a Bulls fan out there hoping for the exact same thing.
Two poor-shooting teams clashing, both with regrets over lost opportunities at the trade deadline. Both teams unable to find opportunity to develop their young talent. Both teams with drama over coaching.
Rocky Balboa once told me the toughest opponent you will ever face is in the mirror.
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Post by scully19 on Apr 10, 2023 9:32:50 GMT -5
I don't expect many Bulls fans are hoping for a loss, they have no incentive since this pick is part of the terrible terrible trade for Vuc. Raptors on the other hand there is definitely a lot hoping for a loss. 11th/12th/13th pick in the draft would be up for grabs here and I think at this point we should be expecting some strong changes this year might as well take the highest pick possible. For us to move up, either Bulls make the playoffs or a 9/10 seed from the West. Currently set at 13.
I still can't not look at the Blazers...they have the 5th best odds this year so that pick is going to be pretty good (ugg, the Raptors would have easily been here if they moved off players at the deadline). Anyways, Siakam and Young for 5th pick, Sharpe, Nurkic, Simons + swap + pick or something to that effect. Blazers would be getting another star for Lillard to go for it while also cutting money from the books and getting rid of a terrible contract in Nurkic. Raptors get younger, scoring and possible top end talent should it be developed.
Based on the above tweet, if they get the 2nd pick and would move it for someone, how about OG for Nurkic, Sharpe and the pick. We get Scoot Henderson who honestly seems pretty fantastic as well he is just being overshadowed by Vic so much that people are overlooking him. The front court clears up with OG gone so Scottie goes to SF, Sharpe would be either starting SG with Scoot PG and we can sign and trade Fred maybe for something? Or keep Fred and have him be combo guard and Sharpe 6th man. FVV, Scoot, Scottie, Pascal, Yak with Sharpe, Precious, GTJ maybe, Banton, Koloko, Boucher is a nice mix of vets with youth. Give this a year or 2 then maybe move from siakam and FVV then if it doesn't look like a championship is coming with this team and let's you keep more assets. The above trade could work as well and might be better since it give way more ball handling available for Scottie and Scoot.
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Post by zugzwang on Apr 10, 2023 13:54:34 GMT -5
Definitely seeing Bulls fans hoping a loss will signal management to blow up their team after a rough season, though I take your point, it doesn't assist them in the draft. Rationality isn't a strong suit for a lot of sports fans.
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Post by scully19 on Apr 10, 2023 17:37:38 GMT -5
Definitely seeing Bulls fans hoping a loss will signal management to blow up their team after a rough season, though I take your point, it doesn't assist them in the draft. Rationality isn't a strong suit for a lot of sports fans. you would sure hope they already got that signal after this season regardless of the rest of it.
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Post by haisan on May 16, 2023 17:39:50 GMT -5
God, I hate draft lottery stories. It’s a lottery! What is there to say? “Odds are X won’t happen, but there’s a 17.453% chance it might. And if it does, then this other thing might happen.” Yeah, great. Thanks.
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Post by haisan on May 16, 2023 19:19:04 GMT -5
And Toronto at 13 in the draft... No surprise.
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Post by haisan on May 16, 2023 19:27:58 GMT -5
I've been watching a Youtube livestream by some Portland fans. It was hella funny. They were so excited to move up ... but then they only moved up two to 3rd. So I guess that helps with Scully's big Portland trade plans. OG for Sharpe and the 3rd pick!
Absolutely incredible about the Spurs, though. 3-for-3 on getting the top pick when there's a generational center available.
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Post by scully19 on May 16, 2023 19:47:45 GMT -5
Can't complain about the draft lottery today, Raptors got what they expected. Portland moved up to 3rd is fantastic news for us to try to take their pick for one of those top guys, and the Spurs got the top pick, much rather them have Victor than Charlotte.
Lest we not forget, Raptors would have been the 5th pick if they went into the tank mode, so that 3rd pick should have been theirs to start. I was starting to feel sick if Portland got the first pick what that would have meant so very thankful they didn't for multiple reasons. As discussed, they have already said they are planning on trading this pick to get talent now to try to compete.
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Post by scully19 on May 21, 2023 13:42:24 GMT -5
I'm honestly so upset we didn't take a run at Wemby. Look at him next to Rudy Gobert, one of the tallest guys in the league. streamable.com/yxoz6y
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Post by Pseudonym on May 21, 2023 14:11:51 GMT -5
Can't complain about the draft lottery today, Raptors got what they expected. Portland moved up to 3rd is fantastic news for us to try to take their pick for one of those top guys, and the Spurs got the top pick, much rather them have Victor than Charlotte. Lest we not forget, Raptors would have been the 5th pick if they went into the tank mode, so that 3rd pick should have been theirs to start. I was starting to feel sick if Portland got the first pick what that would have meant so very thankful they didn't for multiple reasons. As discussed, they have already said they are planning on trading this pick to get talent now to try to compete. And again, this was with NN unironically running playoff rotations. Trading one of the starters for future-minded assets and playing the starters normal minutes, giving the bench some actual run and a chance of development would've had them as the 5th worst team, easily. Hell, we could have two high picks in an alternative timeline, still trading with Portland. Like the drafting of Barnes, we don't have the info that the FO has. We don't know what's going on, especially culturally. But man, they seem to be running this offseason on the highest possible difficulty.
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Post by zugzwang on May 25, 2023 15:21:53 GMT -5
These puff pieces on the many coaching options are going to be the death of me. Each one makes the prospective coach sound like a genius must have. I don't envy those who have to make this decision. The press needs to dig into the weaknesses of the various candidates. All I'm seeing is amazing resumes.
Frankly, I'm glad Masai is taking his time on this. Every time I read a knee-jerker crap on Masai for "evaluating" I have to hold my tongue. He might not be worthy of the unrealistic pedestal he was placed upon, but in this case his patience is an asset. I think the fan base is going to wind up getting over missing out on Ume Idoka a lot faster than anticipated.
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Post by scully19 on May 25, 2023 17:27:43 GMT -5
Especially because there are some gems that are as yet too busy to meet. The biggest being Chris Quinn, the head assistant for the heat with what clearly like like the best coach in the league right now for both x and o plus culture. Probably can't interview him until they have more time for him to prepare for the interview.
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Post by scully19 on Jun 20, 2023 13:21:47 GMT -5
Twist:
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Post by zugzwang on Jun 20, 2023 17:16:27 GMT -5
Twist indeed! That's great.
Either he's a now a trade asset or the organization hopes he returns to the form he was in his first year as a Rap where he really impressed.
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Post by scully19 on Jun 20, 2023 19:23:53 GMT -5
Twist indeed! That's great. Either he's a now a trade asset or the organization hopes he returns to the form he was in his first year as a Rap where he really impressed. apparently they are trying to do an extension for him as well, basically for 20 a year for 3 extra years so 4 total. Apparently GTJ has been at the OVO center training like all summer and still loves it here (for those that don't remember, he hated Portland and was so happy to get here). I thought after last year he would want to be gone, but maybe the new coach brought him back.
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Post by haisan on Jun 20, 2023 19:56:14 GMT -5
If this does turn into the Raptors team of two years ago (minus the crazy minutes for the starters), someone is going to have to write the real story on what went wrong in the lockerroom last year. How did Nurse go from so creative and fun to such a pill? How did the Raptors go from being so good at talent development to so bad at it?
Who knows, maybe the Raptors really are mediocre and have bad attitudes. But I suspect this is a 50-win team that just went off the rails.
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Post by haisan on Jun 20, 2023 20:38:55 GMT -5
In the latest TrueHoop podcast, coach Thorpe once again says some good things about the Raptors (and OG). Lots of good things about their new coach too. Helped make me cautiously optimistic about righting the ship next season. He also had lots of good things to say about Leonard Miller as a draft prospect. If we manage to get Scoot or Amen without giving up our 13 pick, I'd be interested in getting Miller. podcasts.apple.com/kr/podcast/truehoop/id1523091091?i=1000617600889
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Post by blueyoda on Jun 20, 2023 21:33:30 GMT -5
I actually like Trent a lot - though his game is on and off. His attitude has been great and he mostly plays within the game. I actually think he may flourish if there is less of FVV and Siakam iso and a ball movement office under Darko. MIP in the making ... you heard it here first
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Post by zugzwang on Jun 21, 2023 6:31:41 GMT -5
Twist indeed! That's great. Either he's a now a trade asset or the organization hopes he returns to the form he was in his first year as a Rap where he really impressed. apparently they are trying to do an extension for him as well, basically for 20 a year for 3 extra years so 4 total. Apparently GTJ has been at the OVO center training like all summer and still loves it here (for those that don't remember, he hated Portland and was so happy to get here). I thought after last year he would want to be gone, but maybe the new coach brought him back. Or, if you want to be cynical, rather than Toronto-love, his agent tried to find a better deal and, after testing the market, could not. His agent told him if he wanted more $$$ he needed to 'bet on himself' and impress the league. Trent has decided to do so and hit the gym to remind the world what he's capable of. Either way, it's great for the Raptors. I'm reading a lot of hate over this on the internet and I don't get it--unless you somehow think Masai was going to be able to pull a rabbit out of a hat and use the cap space to get back better and cheaper shooting with a free agent (unlikely). I think the poor reaction comes from those who see this as a signal that the Raps will run it back. I don't see how it signals anything, management didn't make a choice, Trent did. Best case scenario: it grows into a team friendly deal with bird rights and you can even talk extension; worst case, he's an attractive expiring contract. Edit: Now to deal with that rumor that Poeltl doesn't want to come back. I suspect that's just his agent doing his job to try to lever some $$$.
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Post by scully19 on Jun 21, 2023 10:29:48 GMT -5
I agree on Poeltl and I also don't see how that guy gets anywhere near that interest. Did 1 other team plan to offer him anything?
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Post by freewheel on Jun 21, 2023 11:10:06 GMT -5
I'm just fine with Trent coming back. We need guards and shooting. Trent doesn't solve the problem, he's just one piece of the solution. The real problem is that when Trent was injured or not on his game there was no one else. Id be very pleased if we had three guys like Trent. Perhaps then they would feel pressure to perform better on a night basis and stay on the floor. The Heat rode a motley cast of hot three point shooters all the way to the finals until it finally dried up on them.
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Post by scully19 on Jun 21, 2023 22:15:34 GMT -5
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Post by sandman on Jun 22, 2023 2:23:32 GMT -5
Oh god no.
Please no.
No running it back.
No, no, no.
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Post by scully19 on Jun 22, 2023 18:25:46 GMT -5
Oh god no. Please no. No running it back. No, no, no. Seems like this is where our destiny is going... By all accounts it sounds like Siakam to Portland might have happened but Siakam said he won't resign there if traded and so Portland doesn't want to make the trade. Sounds like we were really close to the dream.
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Post by haisan on Jun 22, 2023 21:13:49 GMT -5
Running it back with a better coach ... Maybe FVV's 3pt percentage returns to form. Scottie gets a bit better. Gradey gives us a better outside presence, spreading the floor more for Scottie and Pascal to work the paint and midrange. Poeltl in the middle and Koloko getting better ... Yes, I think I can kid myself with this... Just as long as Darko can get them playing with ball movement and make the team more interesting.
Step 1, though, is seeing Gradey and Koloko do some damage in summer league...
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