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Post by scully19 on Jun 18, 2021 10:27:24 GMT -5
I guess we get a off season kick off when trades start happening:
OKC getting another first round pick this year. Seems like a good move for both sides, Boston can use Horford more than Kemba who seems done at this point and they should be ready to run everything through Tatum and Jalen and just need more good fits around them. I guess Brad Stevens liked Horford.
Also Rick Carlisle is now gone (supposedly stepping down but probably that's the Mavs allowing him to do it that way). Sounds like a lot of conflict with Luka was there and Luka wins right now. Has there every been more head coaching jobs available before?
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Post by sandman on Jun 18, 2021 10:55:47 GMT -5
Kemba will forever be known as the Raptors killer.
That dude had some insane games against us.
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Post by Springer on Jun 18, 2021 13:07:32 GMT -5
Man, OKC got a shitload of picks this year, projected: 4, 16, 18, 35, 36, 55 and gets the Rockets pick if it drops to #5.
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Post by scully19 on Jun 18, 2021 13:28:16 GMT -5
Man, OKC got a shitload of picks this year, projected: 4, 16, 18, 35, 36, 55 and gets the Rockets pick if it drops to #5. It's a bunch of shots at getting impact players but it also leaves them almost completely devoid of veterans and proper training to become good players and good professionals with good habits. I get where they are coming from and did a hell of a job setting up the rebuild but considering at this point so much of their picks are coming from other teams I think they should be trying a lot harder to win now so that they teach winning culture. I look at Philly and I feel like that is what they are lacking. Everyone saw they had these 2 great players and annointed them this next great team and the players acted like they were from the jump but they haven't won anything and don't know how to play and fight to win. They skipped the stages of trying to get better and struggle and moved all in on trying to be a great team and they failed (Harris). Humble mentality and hard work are what make a team great and they never got that part down because they were told they were already great early. It'll be interesting to see how OKC goes over the next few years and if they can hold onto the talent they have like Shai while they keep throwing everything away for picks. |
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Post by Pseudonym on Jun 18, 2021 14:32:09 GMT -5
A great coach willingly turning down coaching an S-tier generational talent is a red flag for a franchise. Dallas looked so stable and now... They are not. Haralabob hasn't been canned yet, so it appears Cuban is getting his Dolan on and siding with a degenerate gambler, despite the lackluster results. The reports seem to suggest that Luka disliked him the most. There's that #metoo stuff that has been brushed over as well.
It's crazy that the Celtics are where they are. They looked so set. Kemba's damaged goods-that knee is arthritic, but it's surreal to go full circle and trade back for Horford while giving up a decent pick for him.
I'm so amused by Presti going full 2K. This is just ab absurd amount of picks. I going imagine refurbishing Kemba and getting another FRP for him down the line.
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Post by freewheel on Jun 18, 2021 15:52:52 GMT -5
Man, OKC got a shitload of picks this year, projected: 4, 16, 18, 35, 36, 55 and gets the Rockets pick if it drops to #5. I think OKC has overplayed their hand unless they trade a bunch of these picks to move up. You cant draft 5 or 6 players in a one draft and develop them all. There isn't enough court time and coaches. Someone will get lost in the shuffle. It gets even worse if they draft another 4 or 5 guys in the following year. |
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Post by sutureself on Jun 18, 2021 16:28:10 GMT -5
Man, OKC got a shitload of picks this year, projected: 4, 16, 18, 35, 36, 55 and gets the Rockets pick if it drops to #5. I think OKC has overplayed their hand unless they trade a bunch of these picks to move up. You cant draft 5 or 6 players in a one draft and develop them all. There isn't enough court time and coaches. Someone will get lost in the shuffle. It gets even worse if they draft another 4 or 5 guys in the following year. I agree, normally I'm all for stockpiling as many assets as possible, but this pretty much guarantees: 1) like you say, just draft all those players and let none of them develop properly or 2) they end up having to draft a bunch of overseas guys they can stash for a couple years (maybe not a bad strategy if any of them hit, but potentially just a waste if you're drafting guys way higher than their projected position just because they're the next international player available) or 3) bundle the picks, but teams might not give them as much value in a trade because they know OKC might have to get rid of them at a discount. |
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Post by sutureself on Jun 18, 2021 18:49:52 GMT -5
Here's a hypothetical: let's say 76ers crash and burn. They decide they can't build around Ben Simmons, need a more conventional point guard who can shoot, but there isn't a big trade market for Simmons and they just want out from paying him max money the next four years. If Lowry wants to go home to Philly and they decide taking on Lowry for a year or two helps them retool on the fly, would you do some sort of Lowry for Simmons sign and trade? I'd be interested obviously but it does worry me that I think he's wasted at PG and would be more effective as a Draymond Green style frontcourt guy, and there isn't really room for him to play there with Siakam and OG.
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Post by Springer on Jun 18, 2021 22:30:39 GMT -5
Man, OKC got a shitload of picks this year, projected: 4, 16, 18, 35, 36, 55 and gets the Rockets pick if it drops to #5. I think OKC has overplayed their hand unless they trade a bunch of these picks to move up. You cant draft 5 or 6 players in a one draft and develop them all. There isn't enough court time and coaches. Someone will get lost in the shuffle. It gets even worse if they draft another 4 or 5 guys in the following year. Yea, i can se them trading half those picks/moving up before the draft. Either that or they're stacking their G-League team! |
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Post by Pseudonym on Jun 18, 2021 22:47:24 GMT -5
Here's a hypothetical: let's say 76ers crash and burn. They decide they can't build around Ben Simmons, need a more conventional point guard who can shoot, but there isn't a big trade market for Simmons and they just want out from paying him max money the next four years. If Lowry wants to go home to Philly and they decide taking on Lowry for a year or two helps them retool on the fly, would you do some sort of Lowry for Simmons sign and trade? I'd be interested obviously but it does worry me that I think he's wasted at PG and would be more effective as a Draymond Green style frontcourt guy, and there isn't really room for him to play there with Siakam and OG. I want nothing to do with the guy. His attitude is also antithetical to everything that the team has built as a culture. He can't and won't shoot, and seems to be somehow regressing offensively. Can't make anything other than a layup on transition opportunity or defensive breakdowns, bullying other people. It's been 4 years and he hasn't add any sort of jumper, can't make FTs (currently the worst postseason FT% EVER!), has no post game, has no runner....nothing. He wishes that he could shoot like Shaq; at 50-60% they would have beaten the Hawks in like 5 games. He had a little baby hook that has disappeared. Very early on in his career he had a short jumper too that he seems to have quickly dumped. It's crippling to a halfcourt offense to have a someone like that, who won't even cut and attack the basket hard because he's scared of getting fouled. You can say that the Sixers babied him, which is likely true, but how does that fire to improve on rudimentary things not come from yourself? Say what you want about Giannis, but he actually improved tremendously. Even his bad games are like 25 & 10 on good, but obviously frontloaded efficiency. The same deal goes for Siakam. In sum: Ben Simmons is a coward and a fraud. And for that reason, I'm now/That's gonna be a no from me, dawg. |
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Post by scully19 on Jun 18, 2021 23:01:47 GMT -5
Couldn't agree more, when he came into the league he talked big talk about wanting to be one of the best ever and then at the same time thought he didn't need a jumper. Get the fuck out of here. He's just coasting on his advantages and making no effort to improve any other aspect. Nevermind that he can't shoot, have you seen HOW he shoots? Probably the worst mechanics in the league. He needs to start from scratch again entirely and there's zero chance he will. People far too often assume young guys will improve so if he can do X now in a few years he'll be great. Ben will be this player his entire career. 180coaching.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/PhotoGrid_1526080965481-800x800.pngAs the image shows his hand is basically sideways in some weird twist position. To overcome that would take an incredible amount of work on it that he won't do, or cause him to rebuild it which he won't do. He's already an all star and all defense, I don't see him changing. I'll maybe dial back the ever a little bit right now, MAYBE this playoffs with him getting benched will motivate him enough to do more, I just expect him to choose wrong and just try to practice his current methods and fail but still this year needs to be the year to snap him out of thinking he doesn't need a shot or he's done. |
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Post by sutureself on Jun 20, 2021 21:46:13 GMT -5
Okay never mind. Officially want no part in the Ben Simmons experiment. If you're a max guy getting benched for George Hill, Shake Milton and Seth Curry in an elimination game, that's a bad sign for your career. I need to give my head a shake. It made me so angry watching Pat McCaw get credit for his 'hustle' when he only took 4 shots a game and treated the ball like a hot potato, why would I want Pat McCaw on a max contract?
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Post by coach on Jun 21, 2021 6:51:19 GMT -5
Talking heads hype player after player coming up and few if any live up to the talk.One of the reasons why I find NBA talk shows entertaining is that they are so often wrong. Philly and Boston have been the sweethearts of talk shows for years. The Bucks got lots of attention because of you know who.Until the Raptors took them out. Philly GM dropped the ball on KLow and now they are faced with it. Embiid had a once in a life time season going on, a performance that the talking heads told us should be a regular occurrence, and the GM failed. He changed out the coach which had little effect. They had a better regular season but the Nets had injuries, the Raptors were playing on Mars, so I'm not sure how good their regular season was. If I'm the Philly owner I'd be looking at some major changes and rebuilding, this group ain't getting it done.
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Post by scully19 on Jun 21, 2021 7:20:09 GMT -5
Trouble is his retooling now includes a greatly diminished value in Ben Simmons who all GMs now see is unplayable when it counts.
I said it years ago too, when Philly rushed it and traded too much for Harris and then doubled down by paying him max offer I knew they weren't a threat anymore. The team as constructed really doesn't go well together and cost way too much to be able to fix it.
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Post by haisan on Jun 21, 2021 9:25:23 GMT -5
I wonder just how far Simmons' value has fallen. I mean, the Raptors need a center, and I think, teamed with Lowry and FVV, with Siakam and OG beside him, that would be a lineup with all sorts of potential. I wouldn't gut the roster for him, but Gary Trent and the No. 8 pick or whatever? Yeah, sure.
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Post by scully19 on Jun 21, 2021 10:08:07 GMT -5
Sounds like Morey plans on using him for the next star player in his star hunt. I expect he'll be sorely disappointed when he tries to go that route, not too many teams thinking he can be someone to build around right now.
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Post by sutureself on Jun 21, 2021 11:47:26 GMT -5
When I said we should get Simmons I was looking at the regular season numbers and thinking just about any team should be able to fit a 14/7/7 guy on their roster. If he just didn't have an outside shot but was still relentless attacking the rim, creating for teammates and going to the line, that's maybe something you can work with. But he was so soft in the playoffs and so terrified of shooting or going to the line (set the playoff record for lowest FT% in a series at around 32%), that he was just a huge negative on offence. His legacy right now is that late game pass in Game 7 where he went to the rim for an uncontested layup/dunk but had already made up his mind to pass and kicked it out to Thybulle who was quickly double teamed. Just baffling stuff for a guy who is 6'10". Philadelphia Inquirer had one of the most brutal takedowns of an athlete I've seen for awhile: "Game 7s are when legends are made. This one made Simmons into the opposite of that. He was the anti-Jordan, the anti-Durant, a player so uncomfortable in the moment that he couldn’t even bring himself to try. For four quarters, Simmons exuded a fear that infected everyone in its radius. He attempted just four shots from the field, didn’t even look to attack. It sucked the life out of the crowd. It sucked the life out of his teammates. It sucked the benefit of the doubt right out of his coach. “I still believe in him, but we have work to do,” said Rivers, clearly exasperated after watching his point guard fold like a fitted sheet in the biggest game of their season. www.inquirer.com/sixers/ben-simmons-sixers-hawks-game-seven-offseason-trade-decisions-20210621.html |
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Post by MangoKid on Jun 21, 2021 12:17:27 GMT -5
Heard a rumour on a podcast hosted with some guys pretty plugged into the Raps that they're shopping Siakim/OG as a package.
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Post by freewheel on Jun 21, 2021 12:41:20 GMT -5
I'd always by low on genuine talent and Simmons has it. Raps badly need another ball handler and shot creator more than they need a shot maker. However I'd feel a lot better about it if Simmons hadn't acted like a complete dick so many times. Guy just needs a bit of humility and to not be the primary ball handler.
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Post by scully19 on Jun 21, 2021 12:55:02 GMT -5
Heard a rumour on a podcast hosted with some guys pretty plugged into the Raps that they're shopping Siakim/OG as a package. As a package for Simmons? Both or individually? Either way no thanks. Siakam is better than Simmons and OG is way more reliable and fits the team way better. We just need that #1 pick tomorrow night and the Raps are set. Not too much to ask right? |
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Post by MangoKid on Jun 21, 2021 14:07:24 GMT -5
Wasn't tied to him at all - unless I missed it. Border Line Raptors is the pod. You can see from some of their guests they're pretty connected (one of the guys one of my best friends too).
I'd rather the #1 than an apparent head case that stands down in the crunch.
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Post by sandman on Jun 21, 2021 16:29:42 GMT -5
I'd sooner trade Pascal than OG.
If we're viewing both guys are complimentary #3 pieces, I like OG better as a role guy than Pascal.
Curious what the get could be on both, though. Not sure many teams will trade a bonafide all-star that would make sense to move both.
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Post by haisan on Jun 21, 2021 17:01:57 GMT -5
I should add about Simmons, my interest in him at this point is exclusively as a center. Stick him in the high post and run some screen and rolls with one of the Raptor PGs. But I have zero interest in him as a leader and main ball handler.
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Post by sandman on Jul 6, 2021 11:58:00 GMT -5
So I caught some highlights of Bruno playing for Brazil.
The man has hit puberty.
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Post by Springer on Jul 6, 2021 14:05:13 GMT -5
Has his 2 years expired??
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Post by scully19 on Jul 16, 2021 11:22:01 GMT -5
Don't know how things changed so fast but one of the most loyal guys in the league, Damien Lillard, it sounds like is going to request a trade from Portland. I realize hitting Chauncey is a driving factor but I'm a little surprised by that, I thought they did an investigation themselves but that sounds like it might have been a sham.
I expect Philly to try to build a good case there and man would be look great with Embiid.
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Post by Pseudonym on Jul 16, 2021 14:45:11 GMT -5
Don't know how things changed so fast but one of the most loyal guys in the league, Damien Lillard, it sounds like is going to request a trade from Portland. I realize hitting Chauncey is a driving factor but I'm a little surprised by that, I thought they did an investigation themselves but that sounds like it might have been a sham. I expect Philly to try to build a good case there and man would be look great with Embiid. This is a uh....very interesting thread. Portland didn't even bother contacting the supposed victim which is probably the biggest sign of a sham investigation tbh. Only 30 people in the world can be NBA head coaches, they should be held to higher standards. Billups, who should be in shambles right now if the Lillard trade request is truly imminent, already got his bad and ring. He isn't losing anything by not getting that job. Rather, I don't think it would be very hard at all to find a coach without a sexual assault accusation. But their GM is a snake oil salesman. Bad decisions compound themselves much faster than good ones; this all really stems from not selling high on CJ to balance out the rest of the roster. Depending on how the draft turns out, I wouldn't mind trying to sneak in and grab Nurkic. |
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Post by scully19 on Jul 16, 2021 14:57:14 GMT -5
I don't mean this to diminish the seriousness of any sexual misconduct accusation, but i don't want things to run where simply having an accusation means you're guilty enough to pay the penalty that goes with it. There's always 2 sides to any story like that and young newly rich people are ripe to be taken advantage of by those looking for a payday. Not saying that's what happened here because i have literally no idea what happened here and not defending this hire in general, again because i have no idea what happened, I just don't like the cancel culture that goes with jumping to guilty and ending careers without merit. Take it serious and investigate but not pre-emptive firing/canceling.
That all being said, sham investigations into it because you already backed yourself into a corner by hiring him too quickly and pushing it through is a bad moment to be in. They should honestly be discussing for a step down here, although they would effectively end Chauncey's career in front office/coaching which is sounds like he wants to get into so he certainly has reasons to not go that route. Not contacting the victim is a very bad start, have a meeting with the lawyer and discuss the facts from their view seems like the second step, first being ask Chauncey what happened.
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Post by Pseudonym on Jul 16, 2021 20:36:28 GMT -5
I don't mean this to diminish the seriousness of any sexual misconduct accusation, but i don't want things to run where simply having an accusation means you're guilty enough to pay the penalty that goes with it. There's always 2 sides to any story like that and young newly rich people are ripe to be taken advantage of by those looking for a payday. Not saying that's what happened here because i have literally no idea what happened here and not defending this hire in general, again because i have no idea what happened, I just don't like the cancel culture that goes with jumping to guilty and ending careers without merit. Take it serious and investigate but not pre-emptive firing/canceling. That all being said, sham investigations into it because you already backed yourself into a corner by hiring him too quickly and pushing it through is a bad moment to be in. They should honestly be discussing for a step down here, although they would effectively end Chauncey's career in front office/coaching which is sounds like he wants to get into so he certainly has reasons to not go that route. Not contacting the victim is a very bad start, have a meeting with the lawyer and discuss the facts from their view seems like the second step, first being ask Chauncey what happened. You're right. But there's a way to navigate stuff like this. What the Blazers have done ain't it. |
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Post by sandman on Jul 16, 2021 22:06:42 GMT -5
You read some of the stuff and we've experienced it first hand, but what a difference within our current group compared to other NBA teams and previous Raps eras. Now, I'm not ignorant enough to think our Raps organization is full of Saints but they've seemingly been highly respect and touted for quite awhile now. It's a whole organizational approach and I think what makes our championship legit. This was something that was manifested and created organization wide. A true, championship mentality.
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