|
Post by Pseudonym on Jan 17, 2024 17:02:22 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by haisan on Jan 17, 2024 17:34:56 GMT -5
Underwhelmed by the return … and yet strangely blasé too. I guess I had mentally lost a lot of my Pascal connection some time ago. He wasn’t helping us win, had regressed in a lot of ways, and was oddly finicky as a player. There was always something taking him out of his game and making him lose his smile. Anyhow, I hope we get lucky with our new picks. And I hope Pascal does well in Indiana… except in 2026, when I hope they pull a 2024 Memphis and we get a great pick.
|
|
|
Post by freewheel on Jan 17, 2024 18:48:09 GMT -5
With the likes of Porter, Young, Mcdaniels, kolokos uncertainty, Brown and Trents free agency. There's going to be a bunch of open roster spots to fill. Those draft picks are going to be needed immediately. Sure this team needs an elite player or two, but they also just need bodies. Players who can grow with the opportunity presented. It's just a bit of concern because our last pick has been massive let down so far. Doubt in the draft has crept in. You still have to believe there will be players in the upcoming draft.
|
|
|
Post by sutureself on Jan 17, 2024 19:16:29 GMT -5
It is interesting to me that Pascal was the former All Star, proven second/third option on a championship team, and we got way less for him than for OG. There's obviously an age factor since OG is three years younger and teams might believe he's just hitting his prime rather than starting to age out of it. I guess maybe Siakam is starting to carry that stigma of top guy on a bad team, while OG is a chameleon who can play a complimentary role for almost any kind of team.
|
|
|
Post by freewheel on Jan 17, 2024 19:22:58 GMT -5
Did you watch Pascal in that last game? He got 17 points and was truly abominable. I think the Raptors looked at that and decided they better get something done fast before it gets any worse. OGs reputation hadn't begun to drop.
|
|
|
Post by sandman on Jan 17, 2024 19:23:21 GMT -5
With the likes of Porter, Young, Mcdaniels, kolokos uncertainty, Brown and Trents free agency. There's going to be a bunch of open roster spots to fill. Those draft picks are going to be needed immediately. Sure this team needs an elite player or two, but they also just need bodies. Players who can grow with the opportunity presented. It's just a bit of concern because our last pick has been massive let down so far. Doubt in the draft has crept in. You still have to believe there will be players in the upcoming draft. Can we go back to filling the roster with some Eurotalent ala Parker and Garbo? That was an exciting time. Find me someone from the Asian leagues too. Let's get some guys with some interesting backgrounds. Do we still have Roko Ukic's rights?! (I kid) I'm fine with the deal. I like Spicy P was becoming Sour P on this roster and it wasn't going to work. He wasn't happy with the way things went and the FO didn't exactly seem keen on him either. We need to rebuild the attitude culture first and establish the pecking order. Barnes is now the #1. IQ and RJ can figure out who is #2 (for the time being). No more FVV/Siakam thinking they should be the top dog and to a lesser extent, OG, wanting a bigger slice of pie.
|
|
|
Post by Pseudonym on Jan 17, 2024 19:52:59 GMT -5
It is interesting to me that Pascal was the former All Star, proven second/third option on a championship team, and we got way less for him than for OG. There's obviously an age factor since OG is three years younger and teams might believe he's just hitting his prime rather than starting to age out of it. I guess maybe Siakam is starting to carry that stigma of top guy on a bad team, while OG is a chameleon who can play a complimentary role for almost any kind of team. OG is plug & play, fitting into any roster reasonably; if he doesn't fit, the roster is...the Pistons? NY were also very confident in resigning him, viewed RJ as a burden to dump on us, and keeping IQ was as untenable as keeping Siakam was for Toronto. The context for NY was someone who was going to leave, and someone who they didn't really want. Whereas Siakam tanked his value in saying he wanted to stay and is a much harder fit - the former is the main thing. The FO fumbled the bag, no way around it; we are set to have give up a higher draft pick for Yak than we whatever will get for friggin Siakam, baring as Haisan alluded to, a Memphis lvl disaster class in 2026. They have to strike gold with these draft picks, but I'm just glad this madness is over and done with.
|
|
|
Post by scully19 on Jan 17, 2024 20:05:29 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by freewheel on Jan 17, 2024 20:33:09 GMT -5
My bet it wasn't the money. He probably thought he should get 5 years.
|
|
|
Post by haisan on Jan 17, 2024 20:40:09 GMT -5
My guess is that 1) Pascal's agents/people decided to play hardball, but mostly just pissed off the Raptors' FO, 2) Pascal is a bit of an emotional player, and when he gets down, he doesn't play nearly as well. 3) When 1 collided with 2, Pascal felt rejected by the FO and went into a funk. Meanwhile, Pascal's people kept doubling down on their hardball strategy.
Mostly a needless mess, with blame to go around on all sides.
|
|
|
Post by scully19 on Jan 17, 2024 21:16:48 GMT -5
My bet it wasn't the money. He probably thought he should get 5 years. I think it mentioned in there he wanted to get all NBA for a bigger boost in money, even though the Raptors made it clear unless he's up there for MVP or first team all NBA then they don't plan on offering the super max if he does qualify. My brain hurts thinking about how they have now gone all in the year after an amazing draft for what is considered a garbage draft. What are we, the Washington Wizards?
|
|
|
Post by freewheel on Jan 17, 2024 21:43:44 GMT -5
All NBA on a team with a garbage record. He's in dreamland.
|
|
|
Post by scully19 on Jan 17, 2024 21:51:54 GMT -5
All NBA on a team with a garbage record. He's in dreamland. well that was in the off season, I assume he thought he could help them not be garbage. Also, last year Siakam was 10th in front court voting so missed out on a spot, but if the 65 game rule existed he would have finished 6th or something like that. I'm sure that would be part of the plan/hope, others get disqualified.
|
|
|
Post by haisan on Jan 17, 2024 22:54:07 GMT -5
So long, Koloko. We hardly knew you.
|
|
|
Post by haisan on Jan 17, 2024 22:59:31 GMT -5
Oh, maybe not so gone. Was waived for the roster spot, but might stick around with the 905 and continue training.
|
|
|
Post by scully19 on Jan 18, 2024 8:57:55 GMT -5
After more time with this I can't help but being disappointed ultimately with this. The OG trade was fantastic because it got some skilled guys back to play now. They really needed to come back with Nembhard or Mathurin that is sort of like Quickley, stuck behind better players that can use the chance to break out. 2 picks at the end of this years terrible draft is nothing to me. It's a wing and a prayer instead of known talent. Take one of those picks back and get one of those 2 guys in the deal.
Do you think this means they are trying to tank and keep their pick this year?
Also, who's next? I assume Poeltl.
|
|
|
Post by haisan on Jan 18, 2024 9:29:20 GMT -5
Kind of amazing that, after such a terrible start to the year offensively, the Raptors are now ranked 16th for ORat. I wouldn't be surprised if they snuck into the top-10 by the end of the year.
|
|
|
Post by sutureself on Jan 18, 2024 11:41:34 GMT -5
A reporter Ian Begley for Knicks is reporting they might be interested in getting Bruce Brown from us. I would like to see a Brown for Fournier/Q Grimes type deal if it's on the table. Fournier has a club option and would essentially be an expiring and Grimes has another year left on his rookie deal and could be cheap Gary Trent insurance if Trent moves on in offseason
|
|
|
Post by scully19 on Jan 18, 2024 12:08:52 GMT -5
A reporter Ian Begley for Knicks is reporting they might be interested in getting Bruce Brown from us. I would like to see a Brown for Fournier/Q Grimes type deal if it's on the table. Fournier has a club option and would essentially be an expiring and Grimes has another year left on his rookie deal and could be cheap Gary Trent insurance if Trent moves on in offseason Ya just saw something like that this morning too, sounds like the Knicks went after Brown in the offseason but lost to the Pacers and now that he is here he could be available. Let's get another draft pick for a terrible draft! Is Grimes any good to be worth it or would a pick actually just end up being better? Maybe a 2025 instead of 24.
|
|
|
Post by freewheel on Jan 18, 2024 12:24:06 GMT -5
The rotation is acceptable as it is and we still have Poeltl to add to it. Brown might be a better option than Dick on most nights but that puts Dick back on the bench again and he really needs to play so that we can find out what is actually there. So Brown isn't really needed in any serious way. Im ambivalent. Move him for a pick or play him if you think he might be worth bringing back on his team option.
|
|
|
Post by sutureself on Jan 18, 2024 12:34:01 GMT -5
A reporter Ian Begley for Knicks is reporting they might be interested in getting Bruce Brown from us. I would like to see a Brown for Fournier/Q Grimes type deal if it's on the table. Fournier has a club option and would essentially be an expiring and Grimes has another year left on his rookie deal and could be cheap Gary Trent insurance if Trent moves on in offseason Ya just saw something like that this morning too, sounds like the Knicks went after Brown in the offseason but lost to the Pacers and now that he is here he could be available. Let's get another draft pick for a terrible draft! Is Grimes any good to be worth it or would a pick actually just end up being better? Maybe a 2025 instead of 24. I think Grimes is pretty good but his upside is Gary Trent good; he's never going to turn into a star. So I guess that depends on how you rate guys like Trent. Grimes can realistically shoot around 40% from 3 and play some defense, probably not going to set up others or create his own shot super well. But that's still a legit type of player every team needs and he's younger and cheaper than Brown. Sounds like Knicks are done with him because of a personality clash between Grimes and Thibs. Grimes started last year for Knicks and looked to be developing but isn't happy with reduced role this year; Thibs is rumoured to be upset Grimes didn't show enough toughness sitting out playoff games with a shoulder injury last playoffs. Who knows what the real story is there.
|
|
|
Post by freewheel on Jan 18, 2024 13:38:46 GMT -5
If Dick could play SF it would clarify a lot of things. Unfortunately he hasn't been up to the responsibility and that has left us searching a little. Barrett is probably going to end up there but he would be better as a guard. Can Brown be expected to handle the SF defensive duties? Grimes and Trent are both guards for sure. McDaniels is best suited for the SF position but I don't think any of us are fans of his. I'm ready to cut him. I think we need to know if the Raps are planning to re-sign Trent first. Too many factors. Thats why I think picks are best. More flexibility.
|
|
|
Post by sandman on Jan 18, 2024 18:13:21 GMT -5
After more time with this I can't help but being disappointed ultimately with this. The OG trade was fantastic because it got some skilled guys back to play now. They really needed to come back with Nembhard or Mathurin that is sort of like Quickley, stuck behind better players that can use the chance to break out. 2 picks at the end of this years terrible draft is nothing to me. It's a wing and a prayer instead of known talent. Take one of those picks back and get one of those 2 guys in the deal. Do you think this means they are trying to tank and keep their pick this year? Also, who's next? I assume Poeltl. You know, I'm holding out hope we can find and develop some guys using those picks. Go back to how Siakam and FVV developed for us and work that magic again. Or, use those picks to make a move on draft day.
|
|
|
Post by scully19 on Jan 18, 2024 18:42:15 GMT -5
After more time with this I can't help but being disappointed ultimately with this. The OG trade was fantastic because it got some skilled guys back to play now. They really needed to come back with Nembhard or Mathurin that is sort of like Quickley, stuck behind better players that can use the chance to break out. 2 picks at the end of this years terrible draft is nothing to me. It's a wing and a prayer instead of known talent. Take one of those picks back and get one of those 2 guys in the deal. Do you think this means they are trying to tank and keep their pick this year? Also, who's next? I assume Poeltl. You know, I'm holding out hope we can find and develop some guys using those picks. Go back to how Siakam and FVV developed for us and work that magic again. Or, use those picks to make a move on draft day. sounds like Masai is certainly thinking about packaging picks and moving up in the draft so we'll see. I just worry if they do want to get to there it'll take 3 to 4 years for them to really pay off, which just seems too far.
|
|
|
Post by haisan on Jan 18, 2024 19:54:42 GMT -5
I quite like Ujiri's press conference today. He seemed frank and real, not evasive or weaselly. Spoke highly of Pascal and took the blame for communications with him going bad over the summer ... but also said he talked to him in California and cleared the air. Defended sticking with his players and believing in them.
And perhaps most importantly — more changes seem likely to come, as Ujiri says he doubts they'll use all 3 of their picks this year:
|
|
|
Post by scully19 on Jan 19, 2024 15:52:42 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by zugzwang on Jan 19, 2024 21:03:08 GMT -5
Thanks for that Scully!
I quite liked this line:
"...They may have a lot of losses like this in the future, but it will give them an opportunity to do something they haven’t done in years: be better than they were yesterday."
|
|
|
Post by scully19 on Jan 24, 2024 12:13:42 GMT -5
Someone did the math in Reddit and it's roughly 50k based on average assists per game.
|
|
|
Post by scully19 on Jan 24, 2024 13:27:18 GMT -5
For tanking, if the lottery balls bounce our way it sure looks like there is a nice C prospect available, Alex Sarr. Basically a really long and athletic C that would be very good defensively and can handle switches because of that athleticism. He is currently a poor shooter, but the upside is that he does shoot from 3 (29%). You're not looking at someone that needs to be trained and might be afraid of it like Poeltl or Mobley and may never get there, it is just something that needs to be improved which is totally acceptable. He is first on both the Ringer board and ESPN Givony's board, so right now this might be a need to win the lottery to get him, but he would be a great fit around our few long term pieces we have. nbadraft.theringer.com/?_ga=2.33927780.455262896.1706120165-591304665.1654086966archive.is/IAVDs
|
|
|
Post by haisan on Jan 24, 2024 20:00:25 GMT -5
Yes, and the top player in 2025 appears to be ... a forward, much like Siakam or Scottie. Lol. So if we were ever to get top pick, 2024 would be so much better than 2025.
|
|