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Post by haisan on Oct 25, 2023 9:31:15 GMT -5
And I guess it's time to have an open chat for all things Raptors, but not big enough to deserve their own threads.
My prediction for the year: Raptors with 48 wins. Eff it, why not.
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Post by zugzwang on Oct 25, 2023 12:09:23 GMT -5
Appreciate the thread! This has got to be the hardest year in quite some time to predict.
I can easily see this year going very bad or very good.
I'm going to say 43.
A rough start on offence as opposing teams pick right up from last season and pack the paint or get creative with the zone. But Poetl and Schroder develop a two-man game which keeps things afloat. As the year progresses we see the rise of some of the Raptor's bench units: Liberty and McDaniels.
But Mo Gueye gets called up when Koloko does not return. He does so well the Raps trade away Boucher and my heart is broken. Porter is also traded away at deadline and instantly lifts his new team. None of which is his fault.
Raps narrowly win the play-in for a first round exit (4-2). The series shows a lot of heart, but The anti-treadmill guys on Twitter understandably go nuts regardless. Oh, and yes, Scottie Barns gets an All-Star nod as a reserve.
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Post by haisan on Oct 27, 2023 1:58:29 GMT -5
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Post by scully19 on Oct 27, 2023 5:29:00 GMT -5
45 wins is my guess.
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Post by blueyoda on Oct 27, 2023 7:05:55 GMT -5
I would be happy with a .500 season, to be honest. Going in, we were trashed by MSM for the loss of FVV and Nurse. I always believed It makes the team better. But it still needs tinkering and balance.
A better result would always be nice.
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Post by scully19 on Oct 30, 2023 17:48:04 GMT -5
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Post by Pseudonym on Oct 31, 2023 10:33:01 GMT -5
Seems like the success of the season will hinge almost entirely on the offense. They should be elite defensively, but in each game there have already been lengthy scoring droughts.
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Post by scully19 on Nov 1, 2023 21:15:09 GMT -5
It's still very early but honestly I think I might like Dennis more than FVV. Offense creation is much easier and the passing is more creative and fun. Actually being able to break your defenders down on the bounce is incredibly useful to setup the rest of the play.
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Post by scully19 on Nov 1, 2023 22:23:43 GMT -5
Meant to post another thing I heard today on the Raptors Show podcast. Offense looked bad so far until the Bucks but there is reason for optimism... They have not been able to practice since game 1 because you aren't allowed to practice after a back to back. They were finally able to before the Bucks game and clearly made improvements.
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Post by scully19 on Nov 2, 2023 6:37:06 GMT -5
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Post by Pseudonym on Nov 2, 2023 14:23:27 GMT -5
It's still very early but honestly I think I might like Dennis more than FVV. Offense creation is much easier and the passing is more creative and fun. Actually being able to break your defenders down on the bounce is incredibly useful to setup the rest of the play. The POA defense and much needed rim pressure puts it over the top for me. He's shot well from 3 too. He's been better than FVV tbh.
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Post by sandman on Nov 2, 2023 17:45:06 GMT -5
It's still very early but honestly I think I might like Dennis more than FVV. Offense creation is much easier and the passing is more creative and fun. Actually being able to break your defenders down on the bounce is incredibly useful to setup the rest of the play. Worse advanced numbers all across the board. A PER of 13.5... yikes.
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Post by haisan on Nov 2, 2023 22:46:58 GMT -5
Gary and Pascal dueling hard for most disappointing start to the season.
… Actually, that’s not true. I never expect much from Gary. But still…
God, I wish we could package them for a good shooting guard.
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Post by scully19 on Nov 3, 2023 9:54:59 GMT -5
I'll seriously never understand how we didn't swerve to tank for this guy:
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Post by Pseudonym on Nov 3, 2023 14:24:39 GMT -5
I'll seriously never understand how we didn't swerve to tank for this guy: Legitimately new GOAT potential if he stays healthy. The Spurs were LITERALLY just throwing the ball up high in his general area on offense on his way to 38 points yesterday. Which brings me to this point: Scottie is and will be Him, but we don't have a running mate with him. There's no other young player to really build with as a corner piece. Wemby or Scoot would've been nice, etc, but we don't really have a path for that....we'd have to tank really hard this year because of the Yak trade. And what in the hell are we going to get for Siakam and OG? Paying $40M to two players on a mid ass team is untenable and other front offices know this. It's still early, who knows what can happen, blah, blah, blah - I know. But there's this strange refusal to take one step back to move 3 steps forward; the team needs a facelift. Boston has done multiple big moves, big front office changes and is still kicking ass at the end of the day.
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Post by scully19 on Nov 16, 2023 6:26:22 GMT -5
Is last year's trade deadline getting worse and worse? They should have tanked as confirmed by how the year ended, but now it seems like Jak is a lot worse than they bet on and can't stay on the court. We would be so much better with a stretch 5 instead we have up a 1st round pick this year and 20 million a year for him.
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Post by zugzwang on Nov 16, 2023 9:17:49 GMT -5
On that awesome Wemby vid above from Pseud - my fave thing is that he barely celebrates. He has that look like it's just another day at the office--and it probably is. It really does conjure echo's of Tim Duncan's attitude and lack of flash. I wonder if that's a Pops thing or just a greatness thing.
Yeah, Jacob Poeltl's declined performance to start the season is really troubling. I'm still hoping he's sick and we'll see a turnaround in which he finds that mojo, but it's been prolonged. He's too young for this. Not having Christian Koloko makes it worse. We saw from last year that, long-term, Precious and Boucher as the center is vulnerable.
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Post by haisan on Nov 16, 2023 10:17:47 GMT -5
Given how many of the best players in the NBA these days have been taken outside of the lottery, I'm less upset about the lack of tanking. There are just too many variables and hindsight is 20/20.
HOWEVER, now that the state of things is much more clear, I hope the FO recognizes where we are, stops overvaluing its people, and starts making real plans for the future.
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Post by scully19 on Nov 16, 2023 11:13:42 GMT -5
Does that real plan include trading away at a loss the person they traded a 1st for that now has a 4 year deal? I'm sorry I've been trying to give him rope, but he's always looked slow and relatively uncoordinated while having a minor impact everywhere from his rookie year he was here and he looks like the exact same player to me now. He's just a solid but unspectacular player and just helps you get by rather than drive winning. A slightly better Khem Birch. I feel like he needs to go the Brook Lopez route and get a good 3pt shot if he wants to be a positive impact player. Right now he just feels neutral to me, which I guess is better than the negative we had a C before but it just isn't good enough.
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Post by scully19 on Nov 16, 2023 11:57:31 GMT -5
Side note, so yesterday's Lowe Post with Kevin Pelton and the talk was around Zach Lavine's trades and the first thing Pelton said is that there is really only 2 serious trade teams for Lavine is the Lakers and the Raptors. Their trade was: GTJ, Boucher, Thad and a couple picks. I played with the trade machine a bit and was looking at Lavine and Caruso for GTJ, Boucher, Thad, Temple (could swap with Porter) and then i imagine they would be wanting a pick or 2 in here. Pro: He would bring a really good 3pt threat Cutting. Thinking of how his nemesis Aaron Gordon fits on Denver as a nice cutter and finisher that we could use for good movement and passing we are trying to build into our offense. Our passing big men aren't as good as Jokic obviously but he could be used the same. Team defense. We seem like we could cover up his defense and maybe demand more from him there since he would be used less on offense focus he can use more energy on defense. Wasn't he somewhat respectable there in an international tournament where he was lower in the pecking order? Contract length. He is signed for 3 more years after this one so you at least have control over him for years and if you want to move him later you can and possibly recoop some of what you put out. Cons: Knees. How is his actual long term health? Is his down year a sign of loss of athleticism or just a crap team. Defense. We can cover it up but it'll hurt the defense in general. Contract. 40 million this year that goes up to 48 in 26/27 - 48 will look like less than it sounds at that time where the cap keeps going up an expected 10% each year until then and could be roughly $156 million with $190 million to luxury tax number according to this. so he is still taking 1/4 of the luxury tax which is now bad but not crippling. Both: Who starts? I assume we then move Dennis to the bench and bring in Zach to start. Dennis has been great, but he could also be a huge boost to a bench that needs help. Is a starting lineup with Lavine defending PGs viable? He's tall and should be fast enough (haven't seen enough to know) but he's known for being terrible on defense so if that is from lack of effort then maybe he could come around to being able to guard space enough and alter shots. Long term finances. Next year this is manageable amount to stay under the luxury tax, but not the year after when Scottie is a max player. So we would have the remainder of this year plus a full year next year to see how it fits. Finances 2024: Starters = Zach - 40, OG - 30?, Scottie - 10, Pascal - 40, Poeltl - 20 = 140 Bench = Schroder - 13, Caruso - 9, Dick - 5, McDaniels - 5, Koloko -2 (maybe) = 34 Total = 174 with a 172 expected luxury limit next year. So we would be filling out the remaining 5 spots while bring over the tax already so moves would need to be made. I guess the conclusion as i lay it out is this doesn't look great but i would be interested in seeing it. Does this team really want to go even more all in on this team's build? I would imagine not. Maybe Pascal gets a sign and trade that brings a couple good pieces back that fit better. I think I might rather do a tear down than this.
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Post by scully19 on Nov 20, 2023 13:02:03 GMT -5
Side note, people are assuming Lavine is worth something but his contract is also terrible and a negative...the suggestion thrown out by Lowe post was 2 picks to Chicago but I'm wondering if the contract penalty brings that down to 1, a pick swap or maybe even none if it's all expiring contracts the other way. This might make this type of play more attractive if you're only doing a swap.
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Post by haisan on Nov 21, 2023 21:01:15 GMT -5
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Post by freewheel on Nov 21, 2023 21:44:30 GMT -5
If by weird they mean can't shoot, then I agree.
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Post by haisan on Nov 22, 2023 11:03:46 GMT -5
Wondering when the trade rumors are really going to ramp up ... and what guards might actually be available. Zach LaVine has gotten the first wave of gossip. Dejounte Murray becomes tradable in early January, iirc (and I like him a lot more than Trae Young... and the Hawks supposedly are interested in Pascal). Sacramento is underperforming, so maybe one of their SGs might be available? Trading with the Knicks for RJ Barrett (assuming he keeps shooting 3s well) would mean god is dead and nothing matters ... but it's the Knicks, so who knows?
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Post by scully19 on Nov 22, 2023 11:14:16 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of Murray, he seems like a dick and mildly overrated. His 3pt shooting is historically poor, it looks better this year but we'll see if that lasts but he's otherwise like 33 to 35%. If we're moving Siakam it needs to be for a 40%+ knockdown shooter.
Based on Dolan's recent lawsuit and filling that this went to court because he doesn't trust Adam Silver to be fair because of Larry Tanenbaum on the Raptors my guess is he's not trading much to the Raptors. If his shooting is real too i like bringing back canadian talent, Shai especially.
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Post by scully19 on Nov 22, 2023 11:21:13 GMT -5
So after last night I would tend to think Orlando is legit, the offense might have over performed for that game but the defense looks legit and should stay at that level all year.
So...I know this is negative time, but who are the Raptors better than in the East? Easy ones at Detroit, Charlotte, Washington, Bulls...closer calls are the Hawks and Nets, other than that I struggle to look at anyone else close. Pacers if Haliburton is out for any amount of time will crater, and they might slow down as the season goes and lower their effectiveness. Best case scenario is they beat those 4 and come 8th? More likely 9th to 10th i think is the general range with 11th in the cards. Besides a trade that balances the roster better I'm starting to get scared we might blow it up this year a year too late and just leave me more and more angry with how this team was managed.
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Post by Pseudonym on Nov 22, 2023 15:20:48 GMT -5
At the time of recording, Toronto was 12 points worse than the 29th ranked halfcourt offense....the Scoot-less Portland Trailblazers. Like, I...you can't even blame Darko, or NN. It's the roster construction and things just appear to be weirdly and needlessly escalating? Just slowly building steam as the trade deadline approaches.
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Post by scully19 on Nov 23, 2023 14:08:09 GMT -5
So we brought in Jak because of not performing great last year and then perform great this year. I really struggle to like anything about the Jak trade. It's not like he's a big C stopper, Embiid just crushes him. He's really just to line up against bruising bigs.
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Post by Pseudonym on Nov 23, 2023 15:40:01 GMT -5
So far in addition to FVV, the team dodged another bullet not extending or re-signing GTJ. The plantar fasciitis is likely still bothering hum and his shooting will certainly tick back up, but he'd be lucky to get 3 years/$45M at this point. So we brought in Jak because of not performing great last year and then perform great this year. I really struggle to like anything about the Jak trade. It's not like he's a big C stopper, Embiid just crushes him. He's really just to line up against bruising bigs. The more he plays, the more upset I get about the trade. I'm not irate about it, but it's just...senseless. I would have rather given up even more for Myles Turner when he was in all those rumours.
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Post by scully19 on Nov 23, 2023 16:02:58 GMT -5
No kidding on Miles Turner, who would have been a proper fit for this team getting the space that Siakam and Scottie need to thrive while still defending the rim. Would it even have cost more? Maybe entirely unprotected instead of top 6? OK.
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