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Post by haisan on Nov 25, 2023 18:47:07 GMT -5
Grady Dick just went 1-12 in his G-League debut. Poor kid is having a hard time with this pro hoops thing.
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Post by freewheel on Nov 25, 2023 19:08:28 GMT -5
I was offered tickets to that game. Didn't know Dick was going to be playing. I'm out of town though and had to decline.
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Post by haisan on Nov 26, 2023 7:49:09 GMT -5
No kidding on Miles Turner, who would have been a proper fit for this team getting the space that Siakam and Scottie need to thrive while still defending the rim. Would it even have cost more? Maybe entirely unprotected instead of top 6? OK. I would point out that Jonas has become of the best 3-point shooting centers in the NBA. I honestly wouldn't care if he is "too slow" for today's NBA ... I'd love to have him back on the Raptors. Even if for just 24-minutes a game or so...
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Post by haisan on Nov 27, 2023 22:07:58 GMT -5
Gradey Dick did a bit better in his second G-League game, scoring 22 points ... albeit on 21 shots. He went just 5-21, and 3-12 from 3point land. But 7-7 from the free throw line (the one skill none our current Raptors possess).
Freeman-Liberty — clearly the basketball player with the best name in the game — scored 26 points on just 17 shots. I really wish he had what it takes to make it in the NBA proper ... if only so we could talk about someone named "Freeman-Liberty" as much as possible.
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Post by Pseudonym on Nov 28, 2023 12:53:36 GMT -5
I have no idea, why but I'm not worried about Gradey at all. His career is truly dependent on his shot, but I also bet it's both a confidence thing and adjusting to the speed of the game, particularly catching and shoot. At the college level, he handled the ball WAY more, but in the NBA he has to at least start as a 3PT specialist
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Post by haisan on Nov 30, 2023 16:49:33 GMT -5
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Post by sandman on Nov 30, 2023 17:46:56 GMT -5
The Knicks doing Knicks things.
I mean, as iffy as our front office has been the last few years, we're still not the Knicks.
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Post by Pseudonym on Dec 1, 2023 13:27:53 GMT -5
High variance mid team
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Post by freewheel on Dec 4, 2023 23:07:21 GMT -5
The Raptors are currently 11th in the conference. Just out of the playin. As talent goes I'd say they are as good as the Knicks, Pacers, Nets, and Magic, but as far as the ability to play effective team basketball, they are worse than those teams and probably sit right where they belong.
The ball is in the managers court. Coach, players, and fans are just waiting for the next move.
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Post by haisan on Dec 5, 2023 7:07:36 GMT -5
Yeah, that’s pretty much it, isn’t it? We have some talent, but the pieces don’t fit well and need rearranging. Best case scenario would be something like last season’s Pacers-Kings trade, making both teams better. Maybe once the In-Season Tournament is over and teams have a better sense of their strengths and weaknesses, some good-but-not-great team will want to take a chance on a talent upgrade.
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Post by haisan on Dec 7, 2023 9:40:35 GMT -5
So of course if we make a big change to the team, we'd prefer to rebuild with young talent. But given Pascal is on an expiring...
Pascal Siakam <==> Chris Paul + Moses Moody works.
Why would Toronto do this? Because of Scotty. Chris would know how to get the most out of Scotty. Plus Scotty has so much potential, but I think he needs a good kick in the ass and someone to show him what professionalism is. One quarter a game isn't enough. Also, that sends Shroder to the bench, where he'd be better going against other teams' second units. And Moody isn't a bad 3-point shooter.
Why would the Warriors do this? Because Pascal would be a huge talent upgrade for them.
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Post by scully19 on Dec 7, 2023 10:30:41 GMT -5
So of course if we make a big change to the team, we'd prefer to rebuild with young talent. But given Pascal is on an expiring... Pascal Siakam <==> Chris Paul + Moses Moody works. Why would Toronto do this? Because of Scotty. Chris would know how to get the most out of Scotty. Plus Scotty has so much potential, but I think he needs a good kick in the ass and someone to show him what professionalism is. One quarter a game isn't enough. Also, that sends Shroder to the bench, where he'd be better going against other teams' second units. And Moody isn't a bad 3-point shooter. Why would the Warriors do this? Because Pascal would be a huge talent upgrade for them. 1 year of CP3 and moses moody wouldn't be enough of a return for Pascal IMO. I'd take it if Moody was a dead-eye 3pt shooter but he's shot 36% in every season so far (honestly crazy how close the percentages are each year, 36.4, 36.3, 36.8). If we're looking at a 40%+ consistent I can get on board but not for what this currently is. I talked about this a bit before and I was thinking Kuminga + Moody plus maybe some picks and contract matching. I do like the idea of a CP3 training for Scottie but I'm wondering about taking on Podz in there too, who shoots the same amount of 3s as Moody but at 45%. I'm also only looking at stats and haven't watched how they play/look. Either way i would hope that we get at least some future pick swaps at a minimum included in the deal you have above.
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Post by haisan on Dec 7, 2023 10:44:33 GMT -5
Sure, picks would be nice, if we can get them. I guess I'm souring a bit of Pascal these days. It's not that losing him would be an addition-by-subtraction situation ... but changing him into an equivalent guard would help the balance of this team so much. Scoring is way up, and these days having a 25+ ppg scorer is what 20ppg used to be. There are 16 people scoring over 25 a game this year! Twenty years ago, there was literally ONE (Tracy McGrady was the only guy over 25 points per game in the 2004 season). You really need something in that range to put pressure on the other team's defense.
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Post by scully19 on Dec 7, 2023 10:52:21 GMT -5
Equivalent guard I'm totally with you, again look at sniper type guard that can defend more than a playmaking one, but CP isn't equivalent at his age. We would need someone with potential to get to that equivalent level but younger, or similar age/contract situation and hope to re-sign them.
I have very much settled on moving Siakam and keeping OG as the better move for the future of this team, we'll see how management feels about that. Siakam for Scoot and Sharpe sure would have looked good at this point if that was ever available.
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Post by haisan on Dec 7, 2023 11:25:10 GMT -5
Yeah, I started mixing my thoughts there. Clearly Chris Paul isn’t a scoring juggernaut. I just like the thought of him getting into Scottie’s grill and telling him to play hard all the time.
Sadly, I can’t imagine Portland trading for Pascal at this point. And most of the teams really going for win-now seem to have spent their capital already. Most of the teams with young players and picks are looking longer term and wouldn’t want Pascal. Which mostly leaves other treadmills with similarly problematic players. I hope management does something but it’s hard to envision what.
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Post by scully19 on Dec 7, 2023 13:23:30 GMT -5
Teams I think are interested in Siakam: Warriors, 76ers, Knicks, Pacers, Hawks Teams I think could be interested (and have stuff to give): Thunder, Kings, Lakers, Pelicans, Grizzlies
I think there's legit reason to believe he could still get a decent return for the future while dragging us down to bottom 6 pick if we can get there.
One not talked about a lot but could be fantastic is the Pacers. They obviously want to get talent in the door and then keep it so this works so well for them, plus they are currently starting Obi Toppin, and a move to Siakam would be a massive upgrade. The cost for them would be a couple backup bench players (I'm picturing both Canadians, Mathurin and Nembhard, and like a first. Siakam is a perfect fit on a fast team like that. We would get 2 young guard prospects. I'm not sure either of these guys have a chance at being a star but you're getting 3 chances at impact players and balancing the roster out better in starting lineup and better bench.
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Post by haisan on Dec 7, 2023 21:58:50 GMT -5
Teams I think are interested in Siakam: Warriors, 76ers, Knicks, Pacers, Hawks Teams I think could be interested (and have stuff to give): Thunder, Kings, Lakers, Pelicans, Grizzlies Teams interested: • 76ers and Hawks don't really have anything to give, imho. • The Warriors ... Maybe? • Knicks are ... lol. Hard to imagine Ujiri talking to them at the moment (but they are the Knicks, so who knows?) Teams with stuff: • Thunder, Grizzlies and Pelicans all seem to be doing fine. Already have decent non-3-shooting wings.... Although certainly the Thunder have the picks, but I'm skeptical they'd want Pascal (bad 3-point shooting, takes the ball out of SGA's hands) • Grizz are extra confusing as they've started so bad. 4 games away from the play-in already. • Lakers' cupboard is bare. • Pelicans ... well, I did not realize they had gathered up so many draft picks, too. Definitely some that could be interesting.
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Post by scully19 on Dec 7, 2023 23:07:05 GMT -5
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Post by scully19 on Dec 7, 2023 23:24:40 GMT -5
Teams interested: • 76ers and Hawks don't really have anything to give, imho. • The Warriors ... Maybe? • Knicks are ... lol. Hard to imagine Ujiri talking to them at the moment (but they are the Knicks, so who knows?) Teams with stuff: • Thunder, Grizzlies and Pelicans all seem to be doing fine. Already have decent non-3-shooting wings.... Although certainly the Thunder have the picks, but I'm skeptical they'd want Pascal (bad 3-point shooting, takes the ball out of SGA's hands) • Grizz are extra confusing as they've started so bad. 4 games away from the play-in already. • Lakers' cupboard is bare. • Pelicans ... well, I did not realize they had gathered up so many draft picks, too. Definitely some that could be interesting. 76ers definitely do, it would be built around draft picks mostly but they have some good ones available from other lesser teams. Hawks have good young talent, going guys who need a lot more development in bufkin, and some picks though not many. Warriors have passable young talent and draft picks in the future that at this point might be worth gold with how little their future holds. They have all their own picks from 2025 on. Knicks, ya that's just funny. They have assets but no chance. Thunder and Grizz probably want og more but Siakam could fit there too. His shooting definitely needs to get better though by trade time. Grizz might need to trade for these guys now in order to be able to get them at all even if the year isn't going to best, if they got OG and managed to get to the play in watch out. Thunder need to upgrade a better fit at SF they just might not be ready to do it yet but they should be aiming for titles now and over pay to get the player they need to round out the roster. They could throw 4 picks at OG and not even hurt their draft stock pile. Lakers you're probably right they don't have much but they do still have the 1 pick that should be highly coveted. I hate Russell if I'm honest but he does have a good 3pt shot. Pels have a lot of assets and I could see him fitting there and they move most of the ball handling coming from all the wings and overwhelm teams there who can't handle that many options. Siakam is also a great defender when he wants to be.
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Post by haisan on Dec 8, 2023 0:24:06 GMT -5
I'm guessing that all three of the teams losing in the finals and semis of the In-Season Tournament are most likely to be hungry for an upgrade. Most likely to convince themselves they're close and have a shot at contending with a good upgrade. Bring on the Pelicans and the Pacers~
What picks do the Lakers have? They've already traded 2024 (possibly 2025) and 2027. I guess they could do a swap for 2026 or 2028...
Philly has already traded 2025 and 2027. The 2026 pick from Oklahoma (or Houston or the Clippers) is very protected. But I think the Clippers' first for 2028 isn't protected and there's a swap with 2029.
Anyhow, nothing to do but wait for now...
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Post by scully19 on Dec 8, 2023 22:11:11 GMT -5
Lost to Charlotte so I had to go check tankathon... This is where it's going for me.
Currently 9th last, 3 wins up on 4th last Portland and Memphis at 6 and 14. 4th is pretty much the target requirement for tank.
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Post by scully19 on Dec 8, 2023 22:19:44 GMT -5
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Post by Pseudonym on Dec 9, 2023 11:11:35 GMT -5
We could have a war chest of assets if they just tanked last year, selling high on FVV, OG and Siakam. Instead we are going to give a lotto pick and another FRP for.....the corpse of Thad Young & Yak. Even in Scottie's ROY season, the severe issues were still there - the abysmal halfcourt offense, lack of synergy and ofc the shooting. The painful step(s) back would already be over with or almost done, but here we are. I still think the longboi thing can work, but you can't pick the same kind of archetype. It took awhile for the Magic, but they are better and doing it right. stats.inpredictable.com/nba/ssnTeamPoss.phpThey are right in the middle. You can work with that, ESPECIALLY since they are still young and missing TEO starters. Whereas we were always running playoff rotations - the success Toronto had was unsustainable without proactive, ballsy moves. And then there is OKC, all long but even more varied. Toronto has a team full of Josh Giddeys
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Post by haisan on Dec 9, 2023 11:20:15 GMT -5
To be fair, that 48-win season a couple of years ago must have effed with everyone in the Front Office. "Have we stumbled into the new winning formula for the NBA?" But no, the conventional wisdom was mostly right. You need guards and shooting after all.
You need to be good, but you also need to be lucky. Ujiri and Toronto had a hell of a lot of luck 2013-19. And again with Scottie. But now the time has come to make the hard choices.
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Post by sandman on Dec 9, 2023 13:21:47 GMT -5
The level of vitriol on realgm for Masai and Bobby is reaching new highs.
It's getting to the point where people are disillusioned that they were just "lucky." Our championship and everything up to it was pure luck and nothing more.
I get being angry. But these people are irrational.
Masai and Bobby did a great job. They still have 1 last shot to right this ship before it gets ugly. Let's not turn this into a revisionist thing. They were excellent leading up to the 'ship. They built a near flawless team and development system.
Their legacy has taken a bit of a hit but I wait until the deadline before wanting a change in guard.
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Post by scully19 on Dec 9, 2023 19:26:52 GMT -5
We could have a war chest of assets if they just tanked last year, selling high on FVV, OG and Siakam. Instead we are going to give a lotto pick and another FRP for.....the corpse of Thad Young & Yak. Even in Scottie's ROY season, the severe issues were still there - the abysmal halfcourt offense, lack of synergy and ofc the shooting. The painful step(s) back would already be over with or almost done, but here we are. I still think the longboi thing can work, but you can't pick the same kind of archetype. It took awhile for the Magic, but they are better and doing it right. stats.inpredictable.com/nba/ssnTeamPoss.phpThey are right in the middle. You can work with that, ESPECIALLY since they are still young and missing TEO starters. Whereas we were always running playoff rotations - the success Toronto had was unsustainable without proactive, ballsy moves. And then there is OKC, all long but even more varied. Toronto has a team full of Josh Giddeys The worst part about waiting is any draft picks we get now to rebuild are even future away in age from Scottie and getting closer to not fitting the same timeline together. EDIT: well no the worst part is actually not getting even a shot at Wemby.
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Post by scully19 on Dec 11, 2023 10:01:23 GMT -5
I feel very locked in right now that there is going to be a trade of Siakam or OG to one of Indiana or Warriors, with those being targeted by me for different reasons. Indy has now come out saying they are going to go all in around Haliburton and aren't worried about making a trade using future picks and expect whoever they trade for will resign. I'm guessing that would be a correct assumption since they have a young, fast, fun team that is rising and why would you leave that (assuming they pay which they ultimately would have to). Either Siakam or OG would be great fits here, they take Obi Tobbin's spot who can't quite hang with the elite's that Indy wants to be and immediate can do that. OG has the better shooting which fits in, plus gives them a big defender they probably would very much like as well to cover the main guys...and side note from his end went to Uni in Indiana so even better fit. Siakam on the other hand doesn't have the shooting (sigh) but him on a fast team seems incredibly intriguing. Thinking him in his early years just racing down the court all the time but now with other skills that can mesh. If they also are looking for someone to help in the times when Tyrese is off then he would be someone that can carry a load fairly well, especially with actual shooters around.
Warriors are on the downswing and this would be their last hurrah to stay in the title hunt. The odds are they would want Siakam i think for the extra offense he can bring and better ball handling, and would put Draymond to C from the start. They would still need bounce back from Klay and Wiggins if they really want to contend but this would help them go all in for another maybe 2 years of title contention potential.
Either of these trades would center around a couple middle of the road young prospects that you don't really expect to have all-star talent but be very nice players, and multiple draft picks that you can get that level of talent if things break right. I think in that end I would think the Warriors draft picks would be better, especially if they are 3+ years in the future, and the Pacers would have the better players for the now. I originally thought that the Pacers were the best option but unless there's a massive overpay it seems like their draft picks might end up being pretty terrible and it's probably better long term to aim for that...although that would really kill a Scottie lead team's potential since he wouldn't be getting a ton of help at all, especially if we lose the pick this year.
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Post by haisan on Dec 11, 2023 10:35:55 GMT -5
I must admit, I'm getting more comfortable at the thought of losing both Pascal and OG. Warriors and Pacers are good options, but I would add Portland. Specifically Anfernee Simons. Portland is an expensive team that wants to lose more, so Simons isn't helping them at all. Sure, Simons stinks at defense ... but it's a scoring league more than ever. Of course I'd rather have Sharpe, but Simons is the kind of high-scoring machine (with a great 3-point shot) who'd pair nicely with Scottie and is probably more gettable.
... Dammit, Ujiri, do something~
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Post by scully19 on Dec 11, 2023 11:41:31 GMT -5
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Post by scully19 on Dec 11, 2023 15:35:17 GMT -5
Crazy thought i don't actually believe in but interesting nonetheless. Ben Simmons is absolute garbage on a bad deal. One more year left at 40 million after this one. What about a trade of Siakam for Simmons straight up BUT we get like ALL of the draft capital. So give me Dallas unprotected 2029, Phoenix 2025, 2027 and 2029 unprotected and maybe some more although those seem like pretty good picks. Anyone taking this?
Maybe Simmons hits the 5% chance he actually gets back some of his value? He's a good fit defensively for the longboi team we aren't quite doing anymore but would obviously be a catastrophe on offense. Otherwise you're taking teams that went all in now on their team that are pretty unlikely to be competitive anymore at that point. Phoenix especially. Those can be pretty big in getting a good team later. Phoenix has NO picks either, so everything they do will only be able to be possible through free agency and they just won't be able to keep up that way.
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