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Post by haisan on Dec 11, 2023 17:23:19 GMT -5
Hawks, Pacers and Kings identified as likeliest trade suitors for Siakam and OG with Siakam most likely to move. Yeah, give me one ambition team and one desperate team. Between the two of them, we should be able to get something good. ….I just hope some team somewhere wants GTJ. Would be happy with a trade for locker room supplies.
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Post by scully19 on Dec 12, 2023 7:11:37 GMT -5
How many games now have the Raptors been fully healthy while going against teams missing at least 1 of their key guys.
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Post by Pseudonym on Dec 12, 2023 11:30:10 GMT -5
How many games now have the Raptors been fully healthy while going against teams missing at least 1 of their key guys. Heat sans Bam + Herro Hornets sans LaMelo Ball Knicks without Robinson + Quickley Suns got a Booker injury he played through Bucks without Giannis Mavs without their center
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Post by freewheel on Dec 12, 2023 14:37:21 GMT -5
The Raptors are a team that you can rest guys against. I expect more teams will start doing this.
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Post by scully19 on Dec 13, 2023 9:59:57 GMT -5
New talk has started that over the rest of this month will be a time to evaluate any Siakam trades that exist, main reason being that if there isn't a good enough market then you extend him before Dec 30 so that he is available to be traded if need be come the draft next year. I'm all for this.
I hope everyone listens to the Raptors Show podcast, but if not Blake Murphy is just awesome in info he pulls up and in short the Raptors have given very little chance for Siakam, Barnes and OG to play together without Poeltl. This seems like a mistake in general since they should find out more how they mesh and try to bring in GTJ for spacing...for that matter this should be part of the rotation so that Schroder and Poeltl play together against bench units and do a lot more pick and roll attack together. Not that Precious is any sort of answer but if he is starting to nail his 3's again and then they just go super switchy on defense with everyone able to shoot besides Siakam...that could be a fun lineup to try out for a bit.
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Post by freewheel on Dec 13, 2023 13:12:19 GMT -5
Poeltl has not been as good a passer as the Raps thought he was going to be. I think they thought they could run some high low and cutting action through him and Ive seen them make the effort to run these plays. However the results have not been there. His passes have become turnovers almost as often as they have become baskets. He's not horrible by any means, its just that he hasnt moved the needle on a team that is heading downward. He only slowed the fall.
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Post by scully19 on Dec 13, 2023 14:17:29 GMT -5
Ya i remember before the year started the idea was that he operate as a hub in the high post, i barely remember that ever happening. By the numbers he seems to be amazing as a roll man but that's about it. So cool, pin him and Dennis together with 3 bench guys and get at it.
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Post by scully19 on Dec 15, 2023 11:31:06 GMT -5
He's having a little bit of a down year, but he's 23 in his second year in the NBA so still some good time left on rookie contract to save some money now. His rookie year he shot 41 percent, this year he's shooting 30 on the same amount of shots. If that were to bounce up then I could see trading Siakam to the Kings for Murray plus stuff, then resigning OG with the saved money plus a couple depth guys. If he could at least be a sniper again you got a good match for Scottie.
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Post by sutureself on Dec 19, 2023 23:34:24 GMT -5
He's having a little bit of a down year, but he's 23 in his second year in the NBA so still some good time left on rookie contract to save some money now. His rookie year he shot 41 percent, this year he's shooting 30 on the same amount of shots. If that were to bounce up then I could see trading Siakam to the Kings for Murray plus stuff, then resigning OG with the saved money plus a couple depth guys. If he could at least be a sniper again you got a good match for Scottie. The funny thing is after only two games of absolutely shooting the lights out (16 of 22 from downtown) Murray has already jumped from 30% to 37% from 3 on the season. Last couple games have been a good showcase if we do end up getting him for Siakam, but unfortunately for us his price probably goes up every time he plays well.
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Post by haisan on Dec 20, 2023 2:46:55 GMT -5
Funny thing about Siakam ... after some better play, his per-36 numbers are getting pretty close to his averages for the past few years. The big difference though? Yes, his 3-point shot has dropped off a cliff, but his 2-point shooting is much much better this year. 2-point percentage, eFG% and TS% all are the best they've been in 5 years or so.
Oh, and his blocks have also collapsed. He just doesn't block diddlysquat anymore.
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Post by haisan on Dec 20, 2023 17:33:21 GMT -5
So, apparently the Raptors are NOT one of the bad NBA teams versus the spread. Which I find rather interesting. I guess the gamblers have this team sussed out already.
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Post by zugzwang on Dec 20, 2023 19:11:23 GMT -5
Ha! Cool!
Haven't they been counting the Raps out for like, forever? They're finally right.
(I exaggerate, Vegas has been right plenty of times, but you get my sentiment...)
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Post by haisan on Dec 21, 2023 17:30:25 GMT -5
Some interesting numbers.
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Post by Pseudonym on Dec 21, 2023 19:13:25 GMT -5
423 minutes to a lineup with a -4.9 net rating, good God. Matches the eye test though. Neither Yak or Schroder are a problem individually. None of the starting is. But together they are clearly less than the sum of their parts. So much so that starting GTJ, who has been abjectly awful overall, is a solid idea just for the sake of desperately needed balance (read: spacing)
Part of me is surprised that they have not use an all longboi lineup. Like if you're going to run Scottie + 4 bench players like an absolute madman, you'd think that chaos button would have been hit at least once (I haven't watched the last few games though).
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Post by haisan on Dec 23, 2023 19:06:24 GMT -5
Omg. Changing starting lineups after just four losses! It can be done! C’mon Darko, give it a try.
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Post by scully19 on Dec 23, 2023 20:36:02 GMT -5
I have a new plan for the Raptors to follow. Stay the course this year, go for the play in and finish in a stupid position no one wants to be and give away the pick this year in the 10s. Meanwhile extend Siakam before the end of December.
Trade Siakam, maybe even sign and trade OG if he's looking at 40 million a year. Love the dude but he's not worth that. Dump everything that isn't Scottie for as much draft picks for the 2025 draft you can... There are a bunch of studs coming up in that draft. That's the new tank year.
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Post by scully19 on Dec 25, 2023 2:54:00 GMT -5
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Post by haisan on Dec 25, 2023 7:26:46 GMT -5
Otoh, the Raptors have just the 19th-hardest schedule left. So more than possible to move up ... if Ujiri gets off his ass and makes a change. Or changes.
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Post by scully19 on Dec 25, 2023 15:57:45 GMT -5
Otoh, the Raptors have just the 19th-hardest schedule left. So more than possible to move up ... if Ujiri gets off his ass and makes a change. Or changes. that might be but the next month is hard. 15 games in 30 days it doesn't matter who the competition is in a bunch of those games you're just going to be tired and okay bad for a bunch of them that you wouldn't beat anyone. Tankathon has Raptors in 7th, but Memphis is definitely going to pass them so effectively 6th after losing to the Jazz. Portland and Charlotte have 7 wins to Toronto's 11 so while it doesn't seem far it'll take a long time for them to win 4 games. This year is just so weird
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Post by scully19 on Dec 25, 2023 21:48:39 GMT -5
Thoughts on Dejounte Murray? I've disliked him since the summer he was traded to the Hawks and started being a douche big timing amateurs in summer games. With San Antonio preferring to trade rather than sign for a lot of money seemed to be a bad sign. He always seemed overrated to me but his reputation is to be a good PG defender and was at least a decent good stats bad team guy. He also has a long contract now so there's value in that, not a terrible price either. The Hawks are also apparently shopping him and he would be eligible to trade Jan 9. The Hawks were also very interested in trading for Siakam. Trading them would at least balance out the roster with Schroder to the bench and GTJ to the starting lineup. With Murray actually hitting a good rate from 3 this year that would put 4 good shooters on the court at once with Poeltl which should at least allow better spacing, and Dennis on the bench pumps up bench scoring they desperately need to. I hated the idea of him on the team but I'm mildly curious now if this is a good move. Better than just extending Siakam? It would balance and save money to give OG (probably making him overpaid to be honest). www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/dejounte-murray-as-a-hawk-without-trae-young
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Post by Pseudonym on Dec 25, 2023 22:18:10 GMT -5
Thoughts on Dejounte Murray? I've disliked him since the summer he was traded to the Hawks and started being a douche big timing amateurs in summer games. With San Antonio preferring to trade rather than sign for a lot of money seemed to be a bad sign. He always seemed overrated to me but his reputation is to be a good PG defender and was at least a decent good stats bad team guy. He also has a long contract now so there's value in that, not a terrible price either. The Hawks are also apparently shopping him and he would be eligible to trade Jan 9. The Hawks were also very interested in trading for Siakam. Trading them would at least balance out the roster with Schroder to the bench and GTJ to the starting lineup. With Murray actually hitting a good rate from 3 this year that would put 4 good shooters on the court at once with Poeltl which should at least allow better spacing, and Dennis on the bench pumps up bench scoring they desperately need to. I hated the idea of him on the team but I'm mildly curious now if this is a good move. Better than just extending Siakam? It would balance and save money to give OG (probably making him overpaid to be honest). I was actually for it when all those rumors were circling around. Him plus the rumoured draft capital pushed me over the edge. It doesn't put us back into contention of whatever, but it can be a good step in the right direction. Siakam will become more expensive if we were to keep him. If we are going to overpay for players, we might as well balance out the roster in some sort of real earnestness. If it works out, it woild be a B, B+ move. The second and third order effects from that I'd still not something I'm willing to overlook at all. In fact, I'm becoming rather feverent about it. An underrated thing is that he has played a ton of minutes with Yak as well. In addition, he's 75th percentile as a pick and roll handler. Schroder is 50th percentile. He is also shooting 38% from 3 on 6.1 attempts a game, or shooting about as well from there as Scottie is this year. And this is supposed to be a down year, right? That....roster balances whatever draft scraps ATL can give would be ok with me.
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Post by haisan on Dec 25, 2023 22:36:22 GMT -5
Thoughts on Dejounte Murray? Him and Donovan Mitchell are the two guys I think about the most (there have been some rumors that the Cavs would like to move DM).
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Post by scully19 on Dec 26, 2023 9:07:37 GMT -5
I was actually for it when all those rumors were circling around. Him plus the rumoured draft capital pushed me over the edge. It doesn't put us back into contention of whatever, but it can be a good step in the right direction. Siakam will become more expensive if we were to keep him. If we are going to overpay for players, we might as well balance out the roster in some sort of real earnestness. If it works out, it woild be a B, B+ move. The second and third order effects from that I'd still not something I'm willing to overlook at all. In fact, I'm becoming rather feverent about it. An underrated thing is that he has played a ton of minutes with Yak as well. In addition, he's 75th percentile as a pick and roll handler. Schroder is 50th percentile. He is also shooting 38% from 3 on 6.1 attempts a game, or shooting about as well from there as Scottie is this year. And this is supposed to be a down year, right? That....roster balances whatever draft scraps ATL can give would be ok with me. the 38 percent on high attempts is certainly encouraging but his history is pretty poor shooting so we would have to believe this is real. High attempts helps make it believable that it'll stick because that's the biggest draw to this kind of trade is being able to cover the floor with good shooters everywhere and really open it up for him and Scottie to drive and make plays. I never thought about his experience with Jak and never knew about him being a better pick and roll player. Also pretty encouraging. Him without Trae has been good numbers as the link showed in my post and that includes quite a few good teams. Do we think we can get draft capital here? Murray comes with 4 more years on a decent deal. Siakam would need to agree to a deal pre move, I don't believe he can extend right when traded which means Atlanta so they need to take on extra risk. Even though Siakam is the better player him not being extended in the off season seems like another in a line mistakes they have made that will cost the team long term. Maybe just Murray and Kobe would be the best you can do.
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Post by scully19 on Dec 26, 2023 9:20:09 GMT -5
Quick trade machine, need more then Murray and Kobe. Would either be Kobe plus patty mills plus a cheap guy like wes Matthews or they do Murray plus whoever they like less between hunter and Bogdan.
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Post by Pseudonym on Dec 26, 2023 16:32:09 GMT -5
I was actually for it when all those rumors were circling around. Him plus the rumoured draft capital pushed me over the edge. It doesn't put us back into contention of whatever, but it can be a good step in the right direction. Siakam will become more expensive if we were to keep him. If we are going to overpay for players, we might as well balance out the roster in some sort of real earnestness. If it works out, it woild be a B, B+ move. The second and third order effects from that I'd still not something I'm willing to overlook at all. In fact, I'm becoming rather feverent about it. An underrated thing is that he has played a ton of minutes with Yak as well. In addition, he's 75th percentile as a pick and roll handler. Schroder is 50th percentile. He is also shooting 38% from 3 on 6.1 attempts a game, or shooting about as well from there as Scottie is this year. And this is supposed to be a down year, right? That....roster balances whatever draft scraps ATL can give would be ok with me. the 38 percent on high attempts is certainly encouraging but his history is pretty poor shooting so we would have to believe this is real. High attempts helps make it believable that it'll stick because that's the biggest draw to this kind of trade is being able to cover the floor with good shooters everywhere and really open it up for him and Scottie to drive and make plays. I never thought about his experience with Jak and never knew about him being a better pick and roll player. Also pretty encouraging. Him without Trae has been good numbers as the link showed in my post and that includes quite a few good teams. Do we think we can get draft capital here? Murray comes with 4 more years on a decent deal. Siakam would need to agree to a deal pre move, I don't believe he can extend right when traded which means Atlanta so they need to take on extra risk. Even though Siakam is the better player him not being extended in the off season seems like another in a line mistakes they have made that will cost the team long term. Maybe just Murray and Kobe would be the best you can do. Probably not now, since Siakam is an expiring now. I mean a previous attempt unseen in the offseason could've been thwarted by Siakam saying he wants to stay and go for the supermax. Just like you say, another mistake by the FO in a long list of them.
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Post by haisan on Dec 26, 2023 23:16:08 GMT -5
Quick trade machine, need more then Murray and Kobe. Would either be Kobe plus patty mills plus a cheap guy like wes Matthews or they do Murray plus whoever they like less between hunter and Bogdan. That was another reason I suggested Mitchell. Donovan-for-Siakam straight up works.
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Post by scully19 on Dec 28, 2023 17:52:06 GMT -5
KD is annoyed with the Suns, because it turns out relying on 3 injury options guys with no options behind them is a terrible idea.
KD to Raptors again?
Obviously Scottie is out but they're looking for title contention, so Siakam plus GTJ plus Boucher or something. Might be too much considering we would then have no depth. Bring back Yuta who loves Toronto.
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Post by sandman on Dec 28, 2023 19:38:49 GMT -5
At this point, do you even want KD?
He's unhappy everywhere he goes. Dude, you're supposed to be the guy, the leader. Make it work.
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Post by sutureself on Dec 30, 2023 12:26:58 GMT -5
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Post by haisan on Dec 30, 2023 12:30:05 GMT -5
Damn. The Knicks! Hahahahha. What a lawsuit.
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