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Post by Pseudonym on Feb 3, 2023 15:30:36 GMT -5
I wouldn't touch Lonzo until he has a clean bill of health. I do like what he turned into when he was healthy - he'd be a good fit. He's longboi who has grown into a good 2-way player and his best attribute is his passing in an aggressive transition team like the Raptors.
But he might not ever play again.
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Post by scully19 on Feb 3, 2023 16:06:39 GMT -5
Prob also don't get Lonzo with clean bill of health, he's not likely to be traded then.
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Post by scully19 on Feb 3, 2023 21:18:38 GMT -5
a decent ball handler that got a good shot developed and works well off ball for a ball dominant wing team seems to be a good fit to me. I feel like he can fit on almost any team that has someone else creating more and he a secondary creator to help break down the defense. Actually I want Ball to be the main ball handler. I think his passing is well above average and would help out the half court offense immensely. It is Vanvleet that I want off ball because I don't think he generates good shots for others. I am also not much of a fan of Siakam as the point forward. He isn't a good enough passer either. I never really thought of it that way. To be honest I don't see him ever getting that chance, even if Siakam gets traded, Scottie isn't and they are working him up to point forward job. Having someone really good off the ball at creating though will be extremely useful if they get defenses moving and Lonzo can pick it apart.
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Post by fenris77 on Feb 4, 2023 0:21:31 GMT -5
I think the team needs shooters more than another ball handler, although I get people's issues with FVV there.
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Post by scully19 on Feb 4, 2023 16:10:43 GMT -5
Another talk around OG is that Portland is definitely buyer this deadline and kind of desperate. Might be able to swing something with Sharpe that is viewed very highly as a nice young player target who needs development but very high ceiling.
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kap
Prospect
Posts: 11
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Post by kap on Feb 5, 2023 13:38:28 GMT -5
The best case scenario for me since pre-season is that OG gets traded.
I don’t see Pascal as anything other than a 4, and I don’t see Scottie as anything but a 3/4 (definitely not a full time 1).
That leaves OG, who I also see as a 3/4, as the odd man out. Also, OG seems to want to be more than just a 3-and-D type player, which has taken the form of more iso plays and shot creation this season. But, to me, he looks terrible every time he tries to create something. His handles and vision are horrible. On top of all of that, he is somewhat of an injury risk going forward.
He is so overvalued right now, and I think that Masai is lining up a bidding war heading into the trade deadline. If we can get the rumoured haul for OG, which usually includes a good young prospect and 3 1st round picks, it will go down as another genius move by Masai and Bobby.
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Post by fenris77 on Feb 5, 2023 19:10:10 GMT -5
There's enough smoke about OG being unhappy that I feel like there must be something there, which makes him even more that obvious guy to move. I have a lot of faith that whatever the Raps decide to do it will be a solid move.
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Post by scully19 on Feb 6, 2023 10:04:43 GMT -5
There's enough smoke about OG being unhappy that I feel like there must be something there, which makes him even more that obvious guy to move. I have a lot of faith that whatever the Raps decide to do it will be a solid move. I find this one hard to believe still even with the smoke. It sounds like this level of unhappy is just that he has expressed interest in a bigger role and not that he is actually sad to be here. He himself said as much and dismisses it more in a throwaway 'Doesn't everyone want this?'...maybe that was Nurse response to it. Anyways, I just find it hard to imagine he wants out now that he has gotten a BFF in Scottie on the team last year. More role yes, but wanting out i just can't get there.
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Post by haisan on Feb 6, 2023 10:12:13 GMT -5
I think all these rumors about feelings and psychology are pretty sketchy. After several years of being pretty good, the team isn't playing well. No one likes losing. How many of these problems would still be there if we were winning? Not many, I'm guessing. That's the real test, to me. If someone is winning and unhappy, then you have a real problem. But right now, I think a lot of people are pretty frustrated.
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Post by freewheel on Feb 6, 2023 10:45:50 GMT -5
Whether he wants to go or not its still a numbers game. The raptors have too many forwards and the way has to be cleared for Barnes to flourish. Anunoby or Siakam, one must go. The bench depth at forward is solid with Boucher and Achiuwa, among others. This team needs guards.
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Post by scully19 on Feb 6, 2023 13:04:19 GMT -5
Whether he wants to go or not its still a numbers game. The raptors have too many forwards and the way has to be cleared for Barnes to flourish. Anunoby or Siakam, one must go. The bench depth at forward is solid with Boucher and Achiuwa, among others. This team needs guards. For sure, I don't disagree. Getting rid of the emotion of liking players as people trading OG only makes sense. From the start of the year I wanted Precious starting at C but also from the start of the year that was always a question of how. OG moved clears that up, and by the sounds of the overpay for him we are likely to get it makes it sort of a no brainer. I love OG, if he were a dedicated 3 and D guy that hit 40% from 3 I don't think I would move him, but as some stats have pointed out recently him with the ball making plays is generally not a great move and he wants to do it more. It's to a lesser degree similar to Gobert, play D and stick to your lane on offense and you're great but they want to work outside it and it kills them. What the rest of the lineup ends up being is very interesting, but I like the front court of Scottie, Siakam and Precious which at least for now seems to be likely to carry over to next year. If lightning strikes and you get the first pick the Precious would be dynamite 6th man. 2nd pick Scoot would also be incredible and would be exact skill set the team needs too. If they stay 5th/6th then that's like a 20 percent chance of happening so now great but we can dream. As for FVV, I'm starting to think of the old adage that it is better to sell too soon than too late. FVV might bounce back next year (he's already seemingly bouncing back this year) but he is being worn out and might start his decline soon. He can't spare much speed for defense. Trading him to me comes down to what you get back. Teams that lost on Kyrie might be more easily convinced to give up extra to get him and the best bet on that is the Clippers for sure. Getting someone like Luke Kennard and a first or something like that, shoots 45% from 3 3 years in a row now would be a nice fit on the team (admittedly don't know much about watching him how he fits otherwise and how he works on defense). He has 1 more year guaranteed then a team option after that each for 15mill so you get some cheaper insurance for Guard play. EDIT: Clippers reportedly offered a package around Kennard, Mann, 1 1st and 2 1st swaps for Irving. So Kennard a first and a swap for FVV sound about right? Irving has the skills but you get a much better team and roll player from FVV with no drama. I would think with the desperate Clips you could squeeze a swap from it too.
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Post by scully19 on Feb 6, 2023 15:18:48 GMT -5
Raptors waited to decide on the moves until around now, they have 1 more game against the terrible SAS that you can expect they win unless they rest everyone or have a terrible first game back at home which happens. The delaying of tanking has now brought the Pacers back to them as they are now in 7th last tied for the Pacers but losing tie-breaker. Time's up, the decision needs to come, what direction are we going...to add to that, this next stretch is a BUNCH of easy games to win and if they do make trades for a tank they better commit right now or they could still go 4-2 without trying in the next 6. Spurs, Jazz, Pistons, Magic, Pelicans, Pistons. Pistons and Spurs should be nothing, and Jazz and Pelicans are on their way down curently, Jazz i expect to get worse at trade deadline before we play them. Pelicans good news is that it is the first game after the All-Star break and they hopefully have their main guys back.
If the plan is just to retool and not go in the tank this year, and which will ultimately lead for them to still be able to win games and therefore push for play-in/playoffs, then they need to look at these next games and say 5-1 at minimum is the goal after the retool. The next 4 are Cavs, Bulls, Wizards and Wizards, so 3 more easy games...at least all of those teams are trying to win still so you can swing those in whatever direction you want to go.
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Post by scully19 on Feb 7, 2023 0:58:02 GMT -5
Apparently there is a ton of talk right now between Toronto and the Nets. Print worded headline grabbing stuff mentions that there was a real discussion about Dinwiddie for FVV plus other stuff going both ways and then basically says Simmons and picks was mentioned for Siakam, which it course means nothing so good luck with that. People are sticking to that but it means nothing. More news though is that they seem to keep taking and the Nets are determined to get a Raptor on the team. I presume OG or FVV would be the targets. We'll see how desperate they really are.
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Post by sandman on Feb 7, 2023 21:34:01 GMT -5
I think there's a riff between FVV and OG. I also think Scottie and FVV have a bit of a riff. Mostly just spitballing but these are the small things I've noticed. Most likely due to losing and if we were winning, the players wouldn't care as much. We're losing and things get exacerbated 100x when that happens.
Unfortunately as you guys are pointing out, we have pretty much noone to replace FVV (unless we get someone back) but we have guys to step into OG's role.
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Post by scully19 on Feb 8, 2023 11:45:47 GMT -5
Listening to talk with Windhorst about LeBron's record and they went on to then being in 13th, perimeter is terrible and they offered both picks unprotected for Kyrie... This left me thinking FVV for both Lakers picks. That would be a good trade for them in getting a good fit guy for that team and we get very valuable picks either using them ourselves or even trading them early while everyone thinks they'll be worth a lot for other players.
We don't have someone to come in to cover FVV as you said, but we kind of do in that we give all the development to Scottie and we lose a bunch because of it now and develop more for the future. So our pick becomes better from it. I would do this move.
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Post by freewheel on Feb 8, 2023 12:15:11 GMT -5
Yeah but the lakers are trying to move Westbrook in the deal too. Now I'm not as down on Westbrook as a lot of people. I think he might actually work on the Raptors. The problem is that his contract is ginormous and its nearly impossible to match contracts.
If the Lakers would be willing to take all our junk. Porter, Birch, and Young along with Vanvleet for Westbrook and picks, I'd be interested. A season and bit of pain to clean the slate.
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Post by haisan on Feb 8, 2023 17:38:09 GMT -5
I’m in the refresh loop. It’s bad! I’m going to be so unproductive until something happens. Lol.
Bane, Poeltl and picks remains my dream. Clayton, Suggs and picks probably more likely. But I guess most likely is something we haven’t been considering. The big thing I want to know is, is Ujiri going to try to win now, or will there be a stealth tank, so we might draft well in June, then a more serious rebuild in the summer.
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Post by scully19 on Feb 8, 2023 20:54:34 GMT -5
So the big talk right now is around Poeltl being traded to the Raptors and they keep holding onto wanting 2 first which is just never happening, and maybe the lower to 1 and 1 second. I know Poeltl is good but man this feels like kind of crappy. They also apparently have Banton on their radar and it's one of this teams biggest disappointment to me (not on him but on the team and Nurse more specifically for not giving him regular minutes). Also, when the Spurs like a player of yours, be weary.
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Post by haisan on Feb 9, 2023 1:14:18 GMT -5
There we go!
We got Poeltl! And we gave up ... nearly nothing. Not bad.
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Post by scully19 on Feb 9, 2023 3:22:15 GMT -5
Really curious what those protections are exactly. Also this move just made us better, so what are we doing exactly?
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Post by scully19 on Feb 9, 2023 4:15:24 GMT -5
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Post by scully19 on Feb 9, 2023 4:42:24 GMT -5
Sounds like Birch can't be traded for Poeltl straight up, send like another cheap player is required and I'm worried it's Banton.
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kap
Prospect
Posts: 11
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Post by kap on Feb 9, 2023 8:05:11 GMT -5
If another player has to be added I have to assume it’s Malachi.
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Post by sandman on Feb 9, 2023 8:19:47 GMT -5
So we got ninja Poeltl back to reunite with Spicy P.
Can't wait for some new commercials.
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Post by scully19 on Feb 9, 2023 9:43:30 GMT -5
If another player has to be added I have to assume it’s Malachi. There was a post saying it didn't pass on a trade machine but read into it more and said it did on another and that this is luxury tax related as Poeltl puts them over the tax but I imagine they can get under in the next day so the trade probably won't be official until end of trade deadline as they either move a big player and see where it lies or dump a lower player to get under.
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Post by scully19 on Feb 9, 2023 9:59:18 GMT -5
I'm going to preface this idea with the fact that he's a bum and I don't want him. That being said...
There's been talk of discussing Simmons trade to the Raptors and now that the Nets have emptied everything maybe they want to dump Simmons as well and completely start over and wash their hands of the whole thing. Ben has been terrible and has top 3 worst contracts in the NBA for his total on court play. The only reason i look at Ben is that he can fulfill the requirements of being tall and be able to guard PG's effectively, and that he is a very large buy low candidate who you might be able to get value in taking right now and then maybe get value in trading later if he improves (unlikely). If the FO hasn't given up on everyone being 6'8 and up then he could still work as the PG on this team. He recently said that back surgery recovery takes time and that's why he's sucked so much this year and misses a bunch of games. Let's give him this and say it's true, if he can recover to where he was as a player (i have no belief he can improve as a player) what would it take as a trade that would actually be accepted?
Simmons makes 35 million so plugging the 2 large but dead contracts in Thad and Porter, you would then be required to trade either Boucher + someone cheap (I picked Flynn) or GTJ. So now that the Nets have this draft capital how about we take some of it. Would Simmons plus 3 first do it? Simmons and Cam Thomas and 2 first? Or just no.
I'm guessing everyone is a no, just a thought experiment i was having. I hate Ben Simmons, but if you want to have a all tall lineup, he's the guy to get at PG (to defend them more than play it).
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Post by haisan on Feb 9, 2023 10:23:00 GMT -5
I'm guessing that grouchy Ben Simmons + happy Scottie Barnes = a hell of a lot of pot.
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Post by scully19 on Feb 9, 2023 10:43:52 GMT -5
So Poeltl pick the Raptors are sending out is 2024 top 6 protected. I'm personally currently on the bandwagon of not liking this trade at this point. I'd rather keep the pick and let Precious play there, or do something to be worse this year to make our pick better and hopefully get a generational C for free. I guess we just have to wait and see what this team looks like after the deadline but at this point i see us making the play-in and then this year is a nothing.
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Post by haisan on Feb 9, 2023 10:49:12 GMT -5
If we're hoping to pull a Celtics and suddenly turn our team around, I think Poeltl is a good start. Those longbois with a real center behind them is pretty interesting.
Trade OG and Trent (or some combo) for a really good SG to pair with Pascal, and we could be really interesting. But so much depends on what OG and whatever can get.
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kap
Prospect
Posts: 11
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Post by kap on Feb 9, 2023 12:27:28 GMT -5
If we're hoping to pull a Celtics and suddenly turn our team around, I think Poeltl is a good start. Those longbois with a real center behind them is pretty interesting. Trade OG and Trent (or some combo) for a really good SG to pair with Pascal, and we could be really interesting. But so much depends on what OG and whatever can get. I agree that packaging OG and Trent for an upgrade at the 2 is the ideal scenario, but I struggle to think of a 2 who matches Trent and OG in value and could possibly be available. Either way, I feel like another move is definitely required following the Poeltl trade, since it is hard to imagine OG coming off of the bench for the rest of the season.
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