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Post by coach on Apr 18, 2021 7:51:53 GMT -5
This whole shit show has been controversial from the beginning. Last year when this was not news and was just breaking in China, "leaked" videos found their way onto the internet. Some of you may have seen the Chinese doctor calling authorities and asking them what they have done. He was an emergency doctor in a hospital and someone recorded him on the phone. He was hysterical. The camera panned around the room and corridor and there were bodies lying everywhere. Other "leaked" videos showed bodies of people who had dropped in the street. One showed where a car had veered off the street onto the sidewalk, driver's door open and driver slumped over the wheel. Other videos showed the government fogging subways and city streets with disinfectant. I saw one where the government literally blocked entrance to a city by dumping earth on the highway so no one could pass. The we heard reports of people being shot trying to leave a city that was infected. None of this has happened in any other country.
I now have come to the conclusion that we should have been suspicious of the "leaked" videos because nothing leaks out of China without the government allowing it. Whether China released the virus or it escaped from the lab they certainly took advantage of it by scaring the rest of the world into believing that we were being threatened by the Bubonic plague and Ebola at the same time with a little Anthrax thrown in. China allowed thousands if not millions to travel outside of China while restricting domestic flights (according to news sources)to Chinese cities. The WHO told us that there was no evidence that this virus was contagious and that China should not be singled out for quarantine. Then we hear that masks are not necessary because masks are not effective against viruses. There are too many examples of contradictions to list here. Anyway my point being that when medical and government officials continually change the goal posts how could anyone organize an effective strategy against the virus? I know this. My health is too important to me to "trust" government is looking after my best interests and would never do anything to harm me. There are many examples of government perfidy for me. One case in point-- Thalidomide. Educate yourself and don't rely on experts. They can be just as wrong as anyone else. Listen to all sides then make your decision.
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Post by freewheel on Apr 18, 2021 15:56:12 GMT -5
Just biding my time until I get vaccinated. Scheduled for April 30. Will this vaccination be the end of it? Shrug. Best I can do right now.
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Post by raurosfalls on May 4, 2021 17:56:32 GMT -5
I find it to be a really polarizing issue. My Dad says he will not get the vaccine, my mom is nigh-on crazy thinking that this whole thing is the agenda of some secret organization, and that they are just trying to isolate us and manufacture hysteria (not to mention that the government is selectively killing people with the vaccine i.e. "genocide"). Then you have people in my friend group on Discord, who follow all the measures strictly, and post articles about how angry their side is that people don't take it seriously, citing as like our fault for being too casual that the virus has infected enough people to evolve and produce variants. I've also heard that even if getting vaccinated, it is still possible to get a different strain of it than the one you produced antibodies to, and that this whole locked-down world with masks and so forth will continue even if people get vaccinated.
As for me, I've tried to take it seriously despite my family's views, but isolating yourself in your room all day and not interacting with anyone is fucking hard. I can do it for a week or so, but eventually I give in and continue going to my dad's office with him to work and visiting their house and so forth. Now I cannot even extricate myself from that job, because it seems I am needed there. On the whole, I think society's reaction to this is a little much and I agree with my parents that this whole current world order trying to get us to wear masks and isolate ourselves to fight the spread is in error (don't want to use the word retarded), but I respect people that feel very strongly about this and would continue to wear masks and follow all the rules just as a show of good-will. And yes, I will get vaccinated, whatever good that does.
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Post by sandman on May 4, 2021 18:27:48 GMT -5
I'll share my own views.
I believe vaccines work. There's a reason why we've been able to eradicate certain illnesses. There's also a reason why some of these things have popped up in communities where they are strongly anti-vax (I think smallpox or polio was one, I may be mistaken here). I believe anyone who is anti-vax is an absolute moron and some of the reasons are beyond comprehension (it causes autism! As if saying an autistic individual is "less" of a human that an individual without autism). On the flip-side, I understand being cautious and weary about a vaccine that is so new and rapidly developed. I can understand not wanting to take it because of that. However, I also look at science and technology in 2021 and it's unbelievable the stuff that exits now.
The next idea I find hilarious is this whole new world order thinking. I have yet to come across a good and legitimate reason why "the NWO" came up with Covid or now vaccines. There's a popular idea that the Vax is to control people - Meanwhile, that person has 5 social media accounts, uses a phone daily, uses a credit card, uses a google home, has a wearable watch, whatever else you can think of. Google and Amazon already know more about us than anyone in the world. Suddenly we're worried that the government (or NWO) will control us? Log onto FB next time you meet someone new - you're almost guaranteed to see their profile pop up to see if you want to be friends with them. Next, I heard it was population control. I mean.. ok, but I think there'd be better ways to go about this then some stealth mission with a virus or vaccine to do that. These very same people who spew this ideas contradict themselves so much. I hear about the NWO and the pedophile ring, the ability to control people, to enslave others... so what happens when the world is killed off and only a few hundred (or however many) remain? How are they going to get their kicks in with only a few people? Further to that, I'm somehow supposed to believe that a group of people want to control the world and are OK with each being in charge? You're telling me that not one of those people wants to rule the remaining hundred of them? For the first time in human history we won't have someone vying to be the "Alpha dog?"
Don't get me wrong, I do believe some of these conspiracies - the pedophile ring is absolutely disgusting and that there are small rich billionaires who control the majority of the world, but I think killing off an entire planet worth of people will serve them less good considering what they seemingly enjoy doing.
Next, is anti-masks. Countries in Asia have already proven (for 20-30 years!) that masks work. That there are no adverse effects to masks. That your lungs will be fine! Yet, some people say they'll never wear a "diaper" on their face and that the "government can't tell me what to do." When in fact... you need to pass a driver's test to be able to drive a car, you need to wear a seatbelt, you can't smoke inside buildings, you need to get your health card renew every few years, you need to pay a sticker for your car, you can't walk into a store in underwear and expect to be served, you don't get to drink and drive, you don't get to smoke and drive. Yet, this is the hill we're going to die on. It's a selfish, entitled point of view that stems from Western society. Thinking of the individual rather than the collective good.
I also get a kick out of the "communism" posts how suddenly everything is "communism"
Here's another random thought - I recently drove by a "anti-lockdown" protest. There were some kids there. Kids who really don't understand anything and get forced to go with their parents. For a few years, being an educator, I have heard that parents do NOT want their kids to learn sex-ed, or to learn about how society really works and that teachers shouldn't be pushing "an agenda." Hilariously, these same people force their kids to go to a protest when those same kids would rather be playing minecraft at home.
I understand people being frustrated with how the rules have made little sense in terms of what's locked down and what's open. I understand being angry that rules don't seem to apply to politicians or the very rich. But then again, rules have never seemed to apply to those groups of people in the first place. I think holding the politicians, the people we elect, accountable for their actions is what needs to be done and no special treatment for any rich individual. I don't believe that we need to spew pseudo-science (Masks cause lung damage! Or, Vaccines are microchips!) to try and make a point.
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Post by MangoKid on May 5, 2021 0:50:51 GMT -5
^ BRILLIANTLY written. I'm not as certain on the couple conspiracies you've written, but as long as you're not saying things like "Plandemic" or flat earth, I'll shrug it off.
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Post by haisan on May 5, 2021 4:59:40 GMT -5
As someone who lives in Korea (where people have long worn masks when they’re sick without complaining) and who has periodically worked with vaccine groups for over 20 years, I have zero patience for the whining and crying and conspiracy theories I’m hearing in the West. Honestly, Europe and the Americas have done so badly over the past 15 months, I’ve started to change my feelings about the Black Plague — maybe it wasn’t so terrible, maybe Western people just suck at basic hygiene. (Joking … mostly).
Wear a mask when you’re around others, get vaccinated as soon as you can. This isn’t super complicated stuff.
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Post by MangoKid on May 7, 2021 0:11:06 GMT -5
It's super complicated...if you're dumb.
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Post by scully19 on May 8, 2021 3:35:04 GMT -5
I've started getting in fights with people I thought weren't so stupid but are drifting towards anti vax and I have literally no patience for it. This type of stupidity is going to keep us with new variants that will make our current vaccines less effective.
It has drawn me a hard line of hate towards basically all social media, every person who starts down the path learned it from social media. The more you are into social media the more likely you think it is fake or vaccines aren't safe. The more you're into social media the more I think you're a fucking idiot.
You want to do research go ahead, but do it fast and do it properly, not some fucking "news" that uses substack and is basically just a blog with no fact checking or credibility. We're at risk now or not reaching herd immunity because this has spread so far amongst the gullible that we might not reach 70 to 80 percent immunization.
As for any "rush", the rushed the bureaucratic stuff, not the science and have been working on similar types of scientific discovery since before the original SARS.
I'm fucking done with living in my house 24/7 and if these straight up morons ruin this shit I'll lose it.
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Post by MangoKid on May 9, 2021 0:43:28 GMT -5
I had a conversation with my doctor about 10 days ago and he said the concern now is we will hit a wall with vaccines - not availability, but the number who have taken their shots. Herd immunity isn't a defined line, and the variants are a game changer. He's written to Ford and Trudeau and said they need to be prepared to pay people if it comes down to it. A 4th wave seems assured in his view - it'll slow in the summer, like last year. People will let their guard down and then come October/November look the fuck out. It will mow down people (these things get more aggressive, as we've learned) and especially those that have denied the reality or refused their shots (I see you working, Darwin!).
I won't agree with you entirely on the social media front - I *love* Twitter huge. But agree that too many count on Facebook and post there flying their stupid flag with near impunity because people tend not to call them out (which is where I come in...). Here's a recent example I tweeted about:
Conspiracy Clown: mainstream media is bullshit Mainstream media: Person suffered an adverse reaction to a vaccine Conspiracy Clown: See! Not getting a shot.
Nevermind the math. Nevermind that the virus is far more likely to damage you. Nevermind logic. It's all confirmation bias and the rantings of mostly insecure fucks looking for the simple answer when the truth is terrifying and complex and nuanced.
And most of those citing they did their "research" in my circle are not people that surprise me with that take. Legit. My reaction almost always is "yep, not shocking there." Honestly I've yet to see a SINGLE person I'd historically think "they're smart" come out and say the things we are seeing with shocking regularity.
I've blocked people I've known for decades in some cases. I'm not here to tolerate their fuckery and shitbaggery. And I've promised some of my closest friends that of the some that we know who called us (literally) insane for getting the vaccine, one will die in the fall if this pans out. It's a shame, but that shit is on them.
I'll close with this: if you want a shot but it hasn't hit your age group yet, view the categories VERY liberally. If you think you're at risk, you're at risk. If you want to identify as Native, go for it (one of my friends did just that, and he's most certainly not). The point is you will not be asked on site. My questions consisted of "are you happy to be here?", "can we see your health card?" and "can we share this information with the ministry of health?" That is all. You want it? Get it. The other groups have had their time to get it done and good for them. Feel no shame. You're helping the cause. DM if you have specific questions you'd rather not ask publicly.
And share that you've got it done. Coattail riders and groupthink types are legion. Lead them to the water and let them drink.
Stay safe all. Let's get this shit over with.
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Post by freewheel on Jul 22, 2021 21:28:56 GMT -5
So how many people do you know who have been rejected when trying to get vaccinated? Well thats me.
I went today to get my second dose and as I was about to get my shot was asked if I had any negative reactions to the first dose. I answered truthfully that I experienced some admittedly bad chest tightness that was unpleasant enough that I went to my doctor for his opinion. My doctor took my blood pressure and EKG and said it looked normal and sent me home. A couple days later I was fine. The nurse declared that I could not get vaccinated and would have to get an assessment and note from my doctor to allow me to get the second dose. Now this all sounds sort of normal except that I thought there was this big rush to get people vaccinated because of the danger of Covid? I guess its not so dangerous that its OK for me to walk around unvaccinated. Im just a wee bit pissed.
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Post by scully19 on Jul 22, 2021 22:33:04 GMT -5
Congrats on being a strange one. Never heard anyone get rejected. I imagine they are being extra cautious because of the extra scrutiny around vaccines right now from those people.
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Post by haisan on Jul 23, 2021 7:59:26 GMT -5
So how many people do you know who have been rejected when trying to get vaccinated? Well thats me. I went today to get my second dose and as I was about to get my shot was asked if I had any negative reactions to the first dose. I answered truthfully that I experienced some admittedly bad chest tightness that was unpleasant enough that I went to my doctor for his opinion. My doctor took my blood pressure and EKG and said it looked normal and sent me home. A couple days later I was fine. The nurse declared that I could not get vaccinated and would have to get an assessment and note from my doctor to allow me to get the second dose. Now this all sounds sort of normal except that I thought there was this big rush to get people vaccinated because of the danger of Covid? I guess its not so dangerous that its OK for me to walk around unvaccinated. Im just a wee bit pissed. What vaccine were you supposed to get? Some vaccines have had more side-effects than others ... and some have a looser window for when you need the 2nd jab. Or maybe you just got an overambitious nurse on a good day? Anyhow, good lucking getting your second asap. I've finally gotten an appointment for my first jab (Korea is really behind), but it's Moderna, so that pleases me. One of the better options versus the Delta variant.
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Post by freewheel on Jul 23, 2021 8:26:09 GMT -5
First vaccination was 2.5 months ago and was Phizer. Second vaccination was going to be Moderna which I was only told when I showed up at the clinic.
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Post by scully19 on Jul 23, 2021 9:55:20 GMT -5
It's basically just AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson that are less effective with seemingly more side effects. The mRNA designed vaccines (Moderna and Phizer) are generally extremely effective and have minimal side effects. I guess you're first version of effects might be up there in worst case scenario. Hopefully you get the doctor approval for the second and it all goes well.
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Post by sandman on Jul 23, 2021 11:07:31 GMT -5
I imagine it's a bureaucracy/legal thing. If you were to end up in a hospital or worse, and the nurse is questioned, they don't want to say they administered the dose when you said you had a bad reaction.
Long-shot? Sure.
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Post by sandman on Dec 16, 2021 15:36:58 GMT -5
So, anyone else just done with this?
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Post by haisan on Dec 16, 2021 20:56:35 GMT -5
So, anyone else just done with this? Sadly, Covid doesn't give a crap about how we feel about it. It would help, though, if the public health response was driven more by good policy and less by politics. At least it looks like Omicron might be less dangerous. Highly, highly contagious, but less deadly. And I'm up for my booster in a couple of weeks.
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