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Post by sandman on Dec 5, 2019 11:28:18 GMT -5
Scully got me thinking with his Black Friday chat, what are we thinking in terms of investments, moneys and all that fun stuff?
I'm a pretty conservative saver. I don't dwell too much into stocks. I had a bit put in to some marijuana stocks based on a buddies recommendation and they have tanked. Not very pretty.
This past summer I was thinking about going in on some Tesla action and I didn't. I regret it now. They bounced back great.
Otherwise, I'm a pretty simple GIC type of person. I want to do more (and better) but I haven't researched enough yet to pull the trigger. ETF's are something I'd like to do and start up on wealthsimple but still some time before I learn all the ins and outs.
How about you all?
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Post by scully19 on Dec 5, 2019 11:59:50 GMT -5
I think about saving money and how to be smart way too much so I'm very in on this chat. I bought a Tesla Model 3, and then their stock plummeted so I bought a bunch of stock too. I wanted to buy some at 250 and thought it was a great deal but because i was buying the car i needed to save my money. Then the stock went under 200 and I had to buy it, so I got 20 shares now at roughly 5000 bucks initially bought at 183USD each. So turns out I did really well there so far and I'm VERY confident in them continuing to go up so I'll still sitting on it even though it almost doubled in 6 months. GICs are currently extremely safe and IMO not worth it since you need to pay tax on your gains which brings down the value more. I avoid them entirely. I think EVERYONE should switch their main bank to EQ Bank. They pay almost as much interest as a GIC (currently 2.3%) on all your money in the account and it is a free bank. So you can largely save money with interest without doing anything. They give you unlimited etransfers but no ATMs (only downside) so what I do is have a account with Simplii which is also a free bank and when I need cash, which is rare now a days, i etransfer it to myself and go to that bank to withdraw (no more downside). I'll make about $250 this year in interest by using them as my normal bank without doing anything special. For the main savings portion i work at a company that gives a good pension so I do have a head start there and that can affect how one might want to save. For me my goal now is to max out my TFSA and mostly ignore my RRSP. I find TFSA to be way more useful to use than RRSP since my pension will raise my tax bar anyways that the differed tax isn't worth much to me, plus as long as I can leave that money alone then it can be extremely useful to have in an emergency. Speaking of emergency. Everyone should have an emergency fund of at least a couple paychecks. EQ Bank lets you create linked accounts where they are all accessible on the same page, so I create an emergency account, labeled as such, and take $75 a bi-weekly paycheck and put it into that account. When you have large car or house repairs you take it from this account and you should be good. I'm currently at $3200 in that account. Then I leave it and EQ gives me interest (seriously, get an account). So back to the main TFSA/RRSP savings, where do you put it? Well you touched on it, ETF and Index funds are generally the way to do it. Warren Buffet is on record as saying any normal person should just put money in a index fund and ignore it until retirement and let it grow. He has a famous bet he now won with a firm, they both started with a like $500,000 each, Warren put it in an Index and this other did their best to make as much money as possible over 10 years. Warren DEMOLISHED them, and he literally did nothing with it. Index/ETFs main thing is the low management fees which erode your profits. Stock market is a balance, every dollar is gets balanced with people who beat the stock market average return and those who lose to it. If the average market return is 10% and a firm beats it by 2%, one would have to come in less than 2%. Here's the kicker though, the firm that beat the market by 2% actually still loses to an index fund that matches the market because the Index fund would have lost 2.3% in management fees. Funny enough, the management firm that lost 2% also cost 2.3% so now it is down 4.3%. Index following the S&P in the states and TSX in Canada to me is a no brainer way to go. ETFs are equally good but be careful they aren't too focused on specific things that you are separate from how the market does overall, this could work out being a negative. The only reason I bought Tesla specific stock is because I read all the time about them and have a very good feel personally (at least I think so). To go further than that, something that explains this all very well is Last Week Tonight. Watch the video below to learn a lot in 20min. I think I've rambled enough for now but I have more to say so any further questions let me know. PS: I started getting trained as a financial advisor and even passed the securities test to be able to do it, but then i left because i didn't like what they do. John explains what they do above, but essentially they push stuff you don't need or into accounts that make them money and have no legal responsibility to be acting in your interest at all and can basically be putting your money into things that pay them out the best. That's what this place was doing with Universal Life Insurance. So I quit and just take care of myself.
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Post by freewheel on Dec 5, 2019 12:23:21 GMT -5
Max out your TFSA and make sure you invest within your TFSA. Don't touch it unless you need REALLY it. Also, make sure you know exactly how much $$$ room you have within your TFSA. Many people don't even know how much room they have. As for what to invest in within your TFSA, I wish I knew. I just fired it into mutual funds and have done ok, but I'm sure I could do better if I understood investing better.
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Post by scully19 on Dec 5, 2019 12:51:10 GMT -5
Max out your TFSA and make sure you invest within your TFSA. Don't touch it unless you need REALLY it. Also, make sure you know exactly how much $$$ room you have within your TFSA. Many people don't even know how much room they have. As for what to invest in within your TFSA, I wish I knew. I just fired it into mutual funds and have done ok, but I'm sure I could do better if I understood investing better. Pretty great quick advice I second, max out TFSA as it is a pretty great vehicle to use. As for what, I direct you to the video above. I personally have 4 funds, 3 index funds that follow TSX, S&P Index and an Internatonal, and a Canadian Bonds for more security against a downswing I expect to come. US funds have a higher ceiling (by a lot) but deeper bottom (not by a huge amount though) so they seem to be generally the best to put your money, while the canadian is more safe. US S&P Index have averaged something around 10% a year including the crash in 2008 (this doesn't go far enough back but would be 10% with 2008, shows now at 13%), TSX Index is around 7% but would be 5-6% with 2008 included. The linked accounts are what I use, which is only manulife because I get a group discount with my work. Either way, there has been many studies done that for people who put money away and don't react at all to swings, they do extremely well and much better than anyone who tries to move money around and buy and sell, they ultimately lose. Short answer, put some % in TSX Index, some % in S&P 500 Index and then ignore it while continually putting in money. If you put 10% in Bonds for safety that works well, and when a crash happens move all of the Bonds into the market you'll then be buying low. Historically after crashes the stock market has done very well in bounce back so this allows you to invest then.
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Post by Money_Ball on Dec 6, 2019 21:25:06 GMT -5
Be careful with fees and more specifically the MER from banks/brokers... over time it will eat up a huge chunk of your profits. My bank was charging 2.4% for their high equity portfolio so I ditched them. I ended up choosing Wealthsimple for their low fees and I'm satisfied with their service/platform.
Again, don't ignore the fees, the difference between %1 and 2% may not seem like much, but with compound interest over a long time it can cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Look up Jack Boggle on youtube to learn more on the subject, he's a legend.
I recommend you subscribe to the Ben Felix channel on Youtube, he's Canadian and very informative. Worth a shot imo. Also, I approve the advice given above.
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Post by scully19 on Dec 6, 2019 23:00:11 GMT -5
Just to add to Money there, MER of mutual funds is 2.3ish, index and ETF 0.3ish. That 2% adds up pretty fast.
Also don't use any banks savings account for general savings, ESPECIALLY TFSA, they only give about 0.3% which means you're actually doing worse than inflation which is roughly 1.5% a year. Waste of your time and cost you by not putting it somewhere with higher returns. More important for TFSA is you waste your tax free increase by not having any gains.
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Post by sandman on Dec 7, 2019 17:59:51 GMT -5
For years (16-24) I kept my money in a LOW savings account. We're talking about a 0.2 interest account. It was only good because I had unlimited transactions. Me, being very unaware of anything to do with interest and not really having any forward thinking other than what club am I gonna hit up in my early 20's, I never paid attention to it. My parents, being immigrants and honestly not very money savvy, never helped me out in this regard.
So then when I began thinking of big purchases I need/will need to make in the future 10 years, I decided to start reading and learning about this stuff. I'm still nowhere near where I want to be (and I appreciate reading all these replies as it helps) but we'll get there.
I'm just mad I lost out on a decent chunk of my life with little interest ever. I never had a great deal of money but if I started putting it away, like you guys said, compound interest, would add up.
I had, at one point about $1200 USD just sitting in my house because my parents preferred to keep money at home so I did the same. Again, not a large sum but if I had done something with it at 18 and needed to use it in a few years (when I am in my 30's) that'd have added up atleast some.
Anyways, between wealthsimple and questrade, what do we prefer? I was leaning towards wealthsimple from what I've read up on it but both seem like a solid options.
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Post by scully19 on Dec 7, 2019 18:42:55 GMT -5
I hear you money, I was very much in that same boat, my parents were never money savvy and I never really was taught to save by them, and obviously not by schools either which woefully miss this teaching. Once you start looking for a house and any other big purchases you start realizing how much time is lost.
When I started saving for my first house I put my company max 35% of my pay into RRSP for 8 months so I could use the first time home buyer plan for it. That was the start of learning. Then you start realizing how important money is, how complicated it is, and how much you need to be saving and I see no other way than to really start learning. It amazes me though with other people in this position they don't care to learn and just give money to financial advisors... Who I really don't like.
I just opened Questrade account, which really was just because I googled the best one and it got the best ratings for service and low cost to use. If you do use them then use my referral and we both get 25 bucks. Code- 696710579428679
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Post by Pseudonym on Dec 8, 2019 12:59:26 GMT -5
Hmm... Iirc, I'm younger than y'all, being 27. I've just been reading a bunch of book on money. I'm currently going through Wealthing Like Rabbits by Robert R. Brown. So I'm basically learning about this from scratch. My parents have taught me nothing in that regard. School is also basically non-existent too.
Other books I've read are The Wealthy Barber, Fight Back: 81 Ways to Help You Save Money and Protect Yourself from Corporate Trickery, and Debt-Free Forever. There's still about a 12 more I plan to read.
Indirectly related is another book, Atomic Habits, about how habits-good or bad-compound themselves over time. Cleanliness or lack thereof is a reflection of habits, for example. Reading got me to have my first set of lucid dreams in a long time and stopped me from eating out for a night...I put that little bit of money into my savings account. A lot of poor spending is also conditioning. The brain is a predictive skinner box. You are always trying to condition yourself and automate things into habits.
Or...When Elon Musk goes on Joe Rogan and takes a hit, you should really be seeing money signs in the smoke, rather then panicking, assuming you already have Tesla stock; buy more after it drops. The same thing can be done whenever Trump says/does something moronic.
I'm just focusing on paying off consumer debt. I've had quite a few misfortunes looking back (e.g. two car accidents in 3 months, made eerie by having a recurrent dream of getting into car crashes before the first one). If I knew what I knew know, I'd be much better off. But the best time to plant a tree is now.
Dunning-Kruger is everywhere, which is both reassuring and horrifying. Powerlifting for 5 years and being good at it, I see it just passively in the fitness industry. And steps to make progress and become good at something are really like properly carrying out a good fitness program. There's a mechanical, Kawhi-esque quality to it all. I was quite unnerved to see that a conservative set index fund and re-balancing its portfolio literally once a year easily beats out mutual funds and any direct financial managing. Or...most of the time, the advisers are seldom there to actually help you, it seems. I'm gonna have to walk in with a clear idea of what I want and just use em as a tool to set things up.
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Post by haisan on Dec 9, 2019 9:12:53 GMT -5
One hard part about knowing what to do with money is that most books were written in a very different economic environment — i.e., before we had a world awash in excess cash, and long-term, persistent low interest rates. Compound interest in the 1970s and 80s meant a lot. These days? Not so much. Plus the neverending rise in housing prices (a pretty-much global phenomenon ... at least in major population centers).
I think if i was under 30 and single, I'd be trying to get into a new condo anywhere near a major subway line. Especially in a city like Toronto, that's pretty much guaranteed to go up in value. For older people who aren't so tied into the big city, then I'd be thinking of home-buying as less of an investment and more as a core stability. And probably look for a nicer place a bit further out. But, of course, much depends on where you job is.
And some old ideas still hold true. Like "Pay yourself first!". Decide what you need to save and sock it away first thing every paycheck. Live on the rest. Index funds over riskier investments. And, of course, marry some rich older lady with a heart condition.
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Post by scully19 on Dec 9, 2019 9:26:13 GMT -5
I would be careful personally on buying a house right now for an investment only. I think in the short term we could still see more clawback on the house economy, especially if they end up raising interest rates further because that negatively directly impacts housing prices. Long term it should make money, but in the short term i feel like there is more of a fall coming yet. If there is a fall then buying at the downward is a fantastic idea though. Really any investing possible in a crash is fantastic.
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Post by scully19 on Feb 10, 2020 9:36:32 GMT -5
Reviving this thread out of curiosity to see who has jumped on the Tesla train? I've been on board for a while now, bought a Model 3 in June and then bought some stocks then because I found the stock to be much too low. Turns out being very good timing for me as I bought it the day of it's lowest point in the last 4 years and it has been all up from there, having now roughly 4x my initial investment. All that being said I'm not even close to selling it because this stock is going to be a rocketship (in my opinion). I've been reading everything about Tesla for years and the upside is huge and they are now at a point that the low end of the future is still rather high. They will not only be one of if not the biggest car company in the world, they are also extremely likely to solve and make money with Autopilot and their energy business is going to be so large that Musk himself thinks it'll be as big if not bigger than the car company. They are so much more than a car company and any investing group that still treats them that way is missing the point big time.
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Post by haisan on Feb 10, 2020 21:30:35 GMT -5
Nice going on the TSLA. I've never had much luck in the markets, so I usually play it safe.
How's the car?
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Post by scully19 on Feb 11, 2020 8:37:13 GMT -5
Best car ever driven, which isn't saying too much considering my car history. Honestly it's awesome, it auto heats up for me in the morning and melts everything all the glass (minus a snow storm), then i use my autopilot for about 80% of the drive in to work which on the highway part of my drive is basically running perfectly without me. Best part is it keeps getting better as it gets updates every month or 2. It's so cool to go to your car and now it drives better, shows cones on the screen, changes lanes more aggressive, in the next few months it is expected to be able to drive from point a to point b with no intervention (although it probably won't do it perfect everytime just yet). It cost a fair amount on the sticker price but the cost of ownership is much smaller than you would think. I only drive about 40km each way to work and home, 80km total) and compared to my previous Mazda 3 which is awesome on gas it still saves me somewhere in the range of $200 a month. It only cost me slightly more than that car when you take that plus no oil changes into consideration.
As for the stock, that thing is just the beginning in my opinion. It still has the room and potential to go up another 10x so I'm just sitting on it in my TFSA waiting for another few years. Once autopilot gets solved and I can send my car out to make money while I stay home is where they will start printing money.
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Post by sandman on Feb 11, 2020 17:15:07 GMT -5
I am SO mad I missed the boat. In June, I was telling my friends, "look at TSLA, it's so low. Great opportunity."
Summer came. I didn't really look further into it.
Then I saw it hit the 700's.
Ugh.
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Post by scully19 on Feb 11, 2020 17:39:08 GMT -5
Ya I hear you, I mainly did it because I've felt like that before and just never pulled the trigger. Things I knew were solid like Netflix taking over streaming but never doing anything about it. Tesla I'm huge on from the start and I should have got in when they first went public or at least shortly after. With it going that low I couldn't pass on it. That being said, you may have missed this boat up to this level but keep an eye on it for any dip, it might be a good thing to get into still for the next boat. 2 things coming up shortly could give them a big jump. 1. Last year they did an autonomous investment day where they described their hardware and then said all cars made from now on will get this new hardware. This year investment day is battery and drivetrain, and while they haven't said what the outcome of it will be there has been a few comments from outsiders who signed NDAs to not disclose that it will be huge, and considering they just bought Maxwell last year that specilizes in dry electrodes battery manufacturing there is a high likelihood that they are about to announce they are doing this type of manufacturing which has multiple bonuses but the BIGGEST is they have the possibility to massively ramp up battery production rate, meaning they might be able to turn out way more cars all of a sudden. Batteries right now are their bottleneck and Musk had recently said that they are working at max capacity and any new vehicles made would only take away from the other vehicles made, total production would remain the same. There is potential with dry electrode that they could ramp up by 16x. Huge. They are also likely to announce a million mile battery with increased warranty numbers which no other manufacturer will be able to compete with. They been talking about being close to this for a while. Finally at the investor day is the above will also lead to better mileage AND cheaper car. They will start charging less the next day because the batteries will become cheaper to manufacture. Good luck to every other electric vehicle cost at that point. Outside of the investor day, they are currently not on the S&P 500 and are BY FAR the largest company not on it. They are actually easily in the top 100 of US companies right now. Basically the only thing stopping them from getting on it is that they need to have 4 quarters with a profit on average in a row plus the most recent version be positive. They now have 2 positive quarters and said they expect to be positive going forward. If they have a very good first quarter, or the next couple being good they will join the S&P. Why does that matter? Well it goes the ETFs and Index funds above. They are run by a computer and by based on the percentage value of the companies in the index. So Tesla would immediately join the top 500 and immediately jump into the top 100 which means every index needs to buy a bunch of their stock all at once. It'll literally HAVE to jump up then. I'm not saying buy now, I'm looking at buying more should their be a dip. They often struggle in the first quarter as they are often using it for growth (started Giga Shenhai last year, starting Giga Berlin this year) so I think it'll be after next Q2 they join the S&P. My target is to buy at a low before that investor day (likely in April) when I think they will blow up.
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Post by coach on Feb 12, 2020 8:28:30 GMT -5
Investment is such a personal decision in that each of us has personal economic needs. I'm retired and so have been through what you guys are doing now. I don't have any inside info because long term investment is not important to me. However there is an old formula that is still pertinent. 40% of your investment in solid investment and lowest return on your money, 40% on moderate risk and 20% (this amount would be what you are comfortable to lose) on speculation highest return. This is for your typical wage earner. Real estate, art, precious metals used for wealth preservation although real estate can be dynamic if you like that sort of thing through buying and selling or renting. Patents can be very lucrative but that usually doesn't apply to most of us. As you progress through to retirement you obviously will adjust these percentages. One other general piece of advice get debt free ASAP. If you like to gamble then don't follow this strategy. Rewards are commensurate with risk but sometimes dumb luck works too.
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Post by scully19 on Feb 12, 2020 8:42:02 GMT -5
Agreed with the debt free part for sure, I dream of the day of being debt free. Including mortgage as debt, once you have no mortgage you bills drop down to such a small amount you can do whatever you want after that.
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Post by zugzwang on Feb 24, 2020 14:17:40 GMT -5
Scully, that's some false modesty there, buddy.
Sure you did well on that Tesla buy, and respect and all, but we all know that's small time. The real story is you made a killing with your investment in the Niagara airport.
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Post by scully19 on Feb 24, 2020 14:57:07 GMT -5
I try to keep that on the down low, there was a lot of people who missed out on such a great opportunity talking about something that was ahead of it's time with multi-story landings and i didn't want to rub that in.
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Post by Pseudonym on Jun 2, 2020 16:58:01 GMT -5
Cleared the consumer debt. So now my plan is to save up a decent emergency fund of $3k. I've already got about $1100 of that. I also opened a Wealthsimple account too and am putting mere $50/month for now. I'm not too sure about switching the RRSP over I opened with TD at the beginning of the year, since it's still also quite small (also $50/month). After I've got that liquid, I plan to save an amount to passively be saved and invested and then....get a new PC, car and PS5, in that order hopefully. My car is really old and rusty (long story) but it's a Corolla, so the reliablity is there. And that's what the emergency fund is for. Leaning towards getting a Mazda 3, but that's a year away.
Maybe later on I can play with Tesla stock. It seems like a somewhat predictable gamble. Just gotta wait until Elon does or says something stupid and then swoop in. Then sell when it recovers and repeat.
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Post by scully19 on Jun 21, 2020 17:42:00 GMT -5
On average Tesla stock losses 20 percent or more in pull backs 3 times a year which is huge.
Glad to hear about getting rid of consumer debt, most people who get in bit money problems come from those who get behind on credit card bills.
Love the emergency fund news too, you will start feeling very secure in life when you have a big basket of cash sitting there.
As for moving from TD, I would move it just based on simplicity of having one savings. You can look at both and see what the fees are and then just go with whatever one is lower. Don't forget to look at management fees as well as monthly and trade fees.
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Post by sandman on Jun 23, 2020 15:39:51 GMT -5
Lots of chatter around NIO.
I read up on them a few months ago, they were around $2-$3 at the time. Up to $7 now.
Always kicking myself when I don't pull the trigger early enough.
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Post by freewheel on Jan 29, 2021 21:49:39 GMT -5
Wild what is going on with the gme stock. AMC and BB are also involved to a lesser extent. I'm no trader but I do have a VERY small TFSA investment account that I opened a while back. I'm thinking of buying a single stock. Not to make money but to support the cause. I'd rather these small buyers make a few hundred grand than it all go into a hedge fund pot.
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Post by sandman on Jan 30, 2021 14:11:07 GMT -5
We like the stock.
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Post by Kap on Feb 6, 2021 12:33:06 GMT -5
What other stocks are you guys watching?
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Post by scully19 on Mar 24, 2021 13:14:26 GMT -5
I'm getting in on a new crypto currency that just launched that I think will have some serious legs here. It's called Chia and it's invented and created by Bram Cohen, the guy who invented bittorrent. It is basically a merger of Bitcoin and Ethereum but instead of proof of work or future proof of stake for Ethereum it uses proof of space and time. What this means is that you load up your hard drive with essentially solved hashes that you would mine with Bitcoin and you then do a quick seek to solve anything. Closest to the answer gets the prize. Biggest selling feature, besides that it does what Ethereum does and uses Bitcoin consensus, is that the power consumption to do it is WAY lower, like maybe a 10th but likely much less and when the world switches more to SSD which is coming in the next 5 years or so then it'll be so hilariously less to be not comparable.
They basically just launched mainnet on March 19 so very new but I'm gotten over 200tb into this program so far and still going. Currently own 29 drives of mostly 12tb and loading them up still. If interested in crypto check it out. If you want any help with setting anything up or what to buy etc then let me know and I'd be happy to help.
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Post by sandman on Nov 5, 2021 11:13:31 GMT -5
So, NFT's, any of you?
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Post by freewheel on Nov 5, 2021 11:29:34 GMT -5
I don't get NFTs. What is the use case? Its like charging someone for a view of the sunset. Yes, perhaps it may look beautiful and perhaps you might own the actual spot that is the best place to view the sunset, but the sunset itself isn't worth any money. Only the spot that you view it from is worth money.
Also why is my photograph that I took of the NFT worth any less? Supposedly having the original is what makes it worth money, but to display it you still require a medium that is just 1s and 0s and can be copied flawlessly. Heres a question for you. If I own an NFT and I display it on 500 monitors at the same time around the world via the internet. Which is the original and why is that more valuable than displaying one original and 499 copies?
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Post by sandman on Nov 5, 2021 13:38:51 GMT -5
I have no idea. I am just reading more into them now.
I am trying to understand this phenomenon and how people are making money but it sounds too easy to be true... A guy spending 1 hour on photoshop drawing a picture of a cat, selling it for a few hundred bucks?
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