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Post by haisan on Nov 5, 2021 18:14:49 GMT -5
I’m pretty anti-NFT, anti-crypto and all the rest. I mean, sure it’s nice to fleece the rubes, but I don’t think any of this nonsense is very sustainable (unless you have a need for some money laundering, of course).
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Post by scully19 on Nov 5, 2021 18:46:37 GMT -5
I don't get NFTs. What is the use case? Its like charging someone for a view of the sunset. Yes, perhaps it may look beautiful and perhaps you might own the actual spot that is the best place to view the sunset, but the sunset itself isn't worth any money. Only the spot that you view it from is worth money. Also why is my photograph that I took of the NFT worth any less? Supposedly having the original is what makes it worth money, but to display it you still require a medium that is just 1s and 0s and can be copied flawlessly. Heres a question for you. If I own an NFT and I display it on 500 monitors at the same time around the world via the internet. Which is the original and why is that more valuable than displaying one original and 499 copies? I wouldn't buy one of those in the same way, but the way it was explained is to think of the people who spend millions on a painting that is the original painting. That painting has been copied and printed but they are not the original. Collectors want the original and especially to say look at the authentic original only I have because I'm so awesome. That's effectively the comparison. You and I will buy the poster version, we won't play in the original painting world because we don't have the money and wouldn't care to spend it. NFTs also go into a lot of other cases in the blockchain world, really anything you want only one of that is traceable and digital could be an NFT. |
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Post by freewheel on Nov 5, 2021 19:08:41 GMT -5
Yes but that doesn't apply to the digital medium because a real tangible object cannot be copied flawlessly. Its physical nature doesn't allow it. An NFT is easily copied in seconds and yes that includes anything that makes it traceable.
I'll give you an example of what confuses me.
Person owns NFT. Makes a perfect copy. Destroys the original by accident or on purpose. What does he now own?
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Post by scully19 on Nov 5, 2021 19:11:31 GMT -5
I think in these cases the destruction of the original might be not possible but I'm not sure, I'm not an expert on this stuff at all.
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Post by freewheel on Nov 5, 2021 19:17:50 GMT -5
Ownership of something implies that you have complete control of it. That should include the decision to destroy it. If you cannot then you don't truly own it.
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Post by zugzwang on Nov 6, 2021 7:21:37 GMT -5
Yes but that doesn't apply to the digital medium because a real tangible object cannot be copied flawlessly. Its physical nature doesn't allow it. An NFT is easily copied in seconds and yes that includes anything that makes it traceable. I'll give you an example of what confuses me. Person owns NFT. Makes a perfect copy. Destroys the original by accident or on purpose. What does he now own? As I understand it, you can't make a "perfect" copy. An NFT's originality or uniqueness is verifiable on a blockchain (typically ethereum). Think of it as a ledger on thousands of computers. The copy which has been made will not 'check out'. What does the person in the example own now? Nothing of value, at least commercially. Maybe it has some personal or esthetic value to him, I guess. Scully's analogy of art is the way to look at it, in my view. You can make a pretty good copy of a Mona Lisa, and that might be good enough for you, but you won't be able to sell it to an art dealer for zillions. Maybe one day everyone decides the Mona Lisa sucks and is a bag of rocks and the original's value drops to nil. The same thing is true of NFT's. I think Daryl Morey is right about NFT's. Long Term, most of them will turn out to be trash. But there are going to be a few which will be insanely valuable. Not unlike Pokemon cards, sculptures or just about any other collectable that humans decided to ascribe value to. It's high risk, but it's a phenomenon that's probably perfect for a digital age. |
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Post by zugzwang on Nov 6, 2021 7:30:16 GMT -5
My understanding is you can indeed burn an NFT permanently off the ethereum blockchain. I'm not sure why you would want to though.
To really wig you out, some artists, like Banksy, create physical art, then create the corresponding NFT, then they burn the physical art (i.e. with actual fire), such that only the NFT survives. It's an attempt to push the monetary value on to the digital product.
It's a different world.
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Post by haisan on Nov 6, 2021 7:37:03 GMT -5
Don’t forget that most expensive art these days is also mostly about money laundering and tax evasion. So NFT art is mostly just more of the same scam.
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Post by sandman on Nov 6, 2021 9:35:22 GMT -5
Don’t forget that most expensive art these days is also mostly about money laundering and tax evasion. So NFT art is mostly just more of the same scam. See, that's where I'm leaning with all this stuff. Yet, why are people buying some random guys art for a few hundred bucks? There can't be that many rich dudes willing to fork out random cash here and there just to tax evade, no? |
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Post by haisan on Nov 6, 2021 10:13:35 GMT -5
My sense is that grifting is propelling this stuff. Money laundering is sustaining it. And in the meantime, a lot of clueless people are trying to work it as best they can.
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Post by sandman on Jan 22, 2022 10:31:38 GMT -5
Got into crypto 2 months ago.
Fun times.
*I am enjoying this drop.
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Post by scully19 on Jan 22, 2022 21:01:05 GMT -5
Got into crypto 2 months ago. Fun times. *I am enjoying this drop. Yep that's some bad timing for sure. What did you get into and how (mining or buying)? |
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Post by sandman on Jan 22, 2022 23:07:05 GMT -5
Got into crypto 2 months ago. Fun times. *I am enjoying this drop. Yep that's some bad timing for sure. What did you get into and how (mining or buying)? Buying! Through Crypto.Com. I'm in on ETH, CRO, ADA and SOL as my big 4. A little bit in Fantom and Chromia. Threw 20 bucks at Shiba for the heck of it. |
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Post by scully19 on Feb 3, 2022 15:19:48 GMT -5
I'll jut say be careful on SOL. I'm absolutely no expert on crypto except for a couple i'm in on (ETH and CHIA), but in some of the things i follow SOL seems to be very much the opposite of what it claims to be and are very centralized while calling themselves deceantralized. It sounds like they shot up just because they are PoS and that became a hot topic because of countries banning mining. I know very little about them though again, so i just suggest looking into them a bit before no one cares again.
Also read about CHIA, biased because i'm in and believe in them but essentially designed to take the best of ETH and BTC an combine them and improve on all the negatives, like power usage being 1/10 to do the same work. PoS has a lot of issues inherent with it (although less energy) but PoST that CHIA created is pretty badass solution to improve on Nakamoto while still using the same principles.
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Post by sandman on Jun 23, 2022 12:55:43 GMT -5
What are we thinking right now? GIC rates seem pretty "OK" to lock in for a bit.
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Post by freewheel on Jun 23, 2022 13:19:36 GMT -5
I'm 8% down on my total portfolio for this year. Maybe 15% from where I was this time last year. I wont say how much this actually is but it is a chunk of money.
Anyway I'm still 10 years away from retirement so I'm just sitting tight and hoping the market bounces back in the next decade. It usually does. I'll continue to invest in my TFSA and RRSP in January like I do every year. But not GICs or bonds.
Once I'm about 2 years away from retirement I'll probably set up some sort of 3-5 year GIC ladder to protect my yearly income.
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Post by scully19 on Jun 23, 2022 15:22:07 GMT -5
Free, I would say this crash (what has happened to this point and what will happen in the near future as i don't think it's over yet) is actually great for someone retiring in your timeline. Basically when it drops buy more. After the 2008 housing crash the markets dropped for about 6 months or so about 50% of it's value and then over the next calendar year they went up to an average of about 70% from roughly lowest. Market crashes are massive buying opportunities as people run away. Timing the market is not easy, experts say to just keep buying as it goes down so you average out your purchases to be lower and lower. You could also wait for something to look way off and gamble at that point. Even catching halfway down still nets you 30% in a year. I have some cash aside waiting for the right opportunities to buy.
I tend to think this fall will be larger. Before this market run up based on low interest rates was an already overextended market that was due for a correction and instead it doubled down. Now they are locked in on raising interest rates continuously and causing a recession instead of trying to avoid it because inflation is a bigger problem. S&P peaked at roughly 4800 and is now down to 3800. Basically 20% loss. I would think less than 3000 is on the cards at least.
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